KNX/EIB ETS Flags

[Warichet]

Hi,

I've a bizarre situation where a GA in ETS (0/7/84) is set (On), but when looking in the HS with qHSMon, the GA is not set (Off).

This leads me to a close look at the ETS flags.
According to this post, the Aktualisieren- Flag seems interesting

Ist das Aktualisieren- Flag gesetzt, so wird ein Antworttelegramm eines Lesevorgangs als Schreibtelegramm interpretiert, d. h. der Objektstatus der Teilnehmer wird eventuell verändert.

Die Anwahl und Auswertung des Aktualisieren- Flag kann nur an System 2, System B und System 7 Busankopplern vorgenommen werden.

System 1 Busankoppler interpretieren Antworttelegramme immer als Schreibtelegramme

I've an understanding problem with this flag,
- would someone be so kind to give a short explanation, please ? maybe an example ?
- would this flag solve my problem ?


Thanks

[saft6luck]

I've a bizarre situation where a GA in ETS (0/7/84) is set (On), but when looking in the HS with qHSMon, the GA is not set (Off).

How do you get the status of the GA in ETS? Via Logging? Can you say which one is the good one? Who changed this GA? Could also be normal (see my example below).

- would someone be so kind to give a short explanation, please ? maybe an example ?

If you read the status of a GA, e.g. status of switch GA for light, you get an answer telegram containing the current status ... sent by a device where the reading-flag is set.

I think this is used often when you use a HS, isn't it?

Assuming this switch GA would trigger 2 actuators and you read the status from your key button device: when the a-flag is active for your actuators they would now accept the answer telegram to set the new status.

Normaly this shouldn't make a problem except if the actuators are using timers to switch off automaticaly and the key button device doesn't get the new status. Then a new 'ON' value will trigger the actuators again.

- would this flag solve my problem ?

Depends on the answer to my first question Who sent the GA ...

You use a dummy device to configure the HS GAs -> Flags are ignored by the HS. Maybe you can configure these Flags in HS but I would expect that HS is the one asking for GA status -> should take the status of the answer telegramm

[Warichet]

How do you get the status of the GA in ETS? Via Logging?

I used the group monitor to check the status when the problem is present.

Can you say which one is the good one?

You make me think (difficult exercise ) I realize now I'm working backwards (see below)
Imho, the HS is right (ETS is wrong).
The GA (0/7/84) is called "Intrusion" and it is used to lit the status LED of a PB (but I think there is no intrusion, the status is wrong)

Who changed this GA?

A logic in the HS. So now I realize I'm working backwards. Usually, it is a GA defined in ETS that drives the HS. In this particular instance (alarm system) it is the HS which drives the GA...

Assuming this switch GA would trigger 2 actuators and you read the status from your key button device:

ûh ?!? who would do that ? isn't poor programming ? one should get the status from the actuator, right ?

Thank you for the example

Flags are ignored by the HS.

I've always been puzzled by the HS flags, and the help is a bit short. Any pointer to some doc about those flags ?

[saft6luck]

I've always been puzzled by the HS flags, and the help is a bit short. Any pointer to some doc about those flags ?

So, the flags of the dummy device are ignored by the HS because there is no direct link between ETS and HS.

For flags inside HS configuration you need to ask e.g. Matthias.

[Warichet]

So, the flags of the dummy device are ignored by the HS because there is no direct link between ETS and HS.

OK, thanks.

Any other idea to help me troubleshoot my problem ? i.e. how can I make sure that a change of a GA at the HS level is forwarded at the ETS level ?

[Michel]

First start monitoring in ETS in order to see which device is sending to that specific groupadress. It is not enough only to READ the current status. You need to see what has happened on bus prior to your "error".

There is NO connection between HS and ETS! As you know, ETS is only used to "tell" sensors and actuators what to do upon the reception of a programmed groupadress.

Maybe you have an error in parameters of a device and/or in HS logic, e.g. a loop.
Please post some more information by screenshots and the monitor-log.

[Warichet]

First start monitoring in ETS in order to see which device is sending to that specific groupadress.

OK, I'll do, although not easy as the problem happens randomly.

There is NO connection between HS and ETS! As you know, ETS is only used to "tell" sensors and actuators what to do upon the reception of a programmed groupadress.

OK, I understand. Given my context, what is the best way to make sure that a change initiated by the HS is reflected in ETS ? Afterall, it is at the ETS level (GAs) that lamps are lit.

Maybe you have an error in parameters of a device and/or in HS logic.

Most probably, yes

Please post some more information by screenshots and the monitor-log.

Sure, I'll do.
Thank you for the hints.

[Michel]

OK, I'll do, although not easy as the problem happens randomly.

That is exactly the reason for monitoring

what is the best way to make sure that a change initiated by the HS is reflected in ETS ?

Sorry, I do not understand that question, as the ETS is not needed during operation.