How to get rid of KNX and/or Gira

[Pygmalion]

Hello KNX Experts!

I am otherwise a big fan of technology, but unfortunately I have had very bad experiences with a KNX system.

When I bought a new apartment about 10 years ago, a KNX Gira system was already installed. From the beginning I have had problems with the system. I have an average of 1-2 service visits per year, which are very expensive for the local area. Furthermore, already two Gira HomeServers have dropped dead (conveniently out of warranty). The first time the HomeServer failed, the local Gira distributor blamed it on power outages (which happen about once a year). So the distributor installed UPS (uninterruptible power supply) and another HomeServer dropped dead anyway.

Conclusion: I pay in average about 500 EUR per year for new equipment and services, which is more than the most expensive utility bill. And of course there is constant inconvenience and fear of more problems.

I even asked the local distributor to change the system so that HomeServer is no longer needed, but they replied that certain machinery can be controlled via HomeServer only. I also contacted Gira Germany and had some very unsuccessful conversations.

I would really love to get rid of this whole KNX / Gira system and just have old fashioned wall switches. Can anyone give me any advice on what to do, who to contact? Would the entire electrical installation in the apartment have to be replaced for this?

Thank you for your advice.

[vento66]

They most homeserver i know are 10 years and older. Last week i replaced one, which was 12 years old, without a UPS. You own a Gira Doorbell, or Gira Client? If both answers are no, you can switch to another system.

[AntarcticChristian]

Hello and welcome to the forum.
First of all: it is always quite usefull to also state your location.

Second: KNX is not equal GIRA. Gira is one manufacturer among a lot of others and a system can consist of different brands (which can all be mixed and are all compatible with each other).

Third: Usually a KNX installation is installed in a way that all basic functions are available without any server component.
If you are using some more deep logics, then the HS might be required or any other logic engine.

To determine what are your problems (beside the hardware failure) it might be helpful to get some pictures from the distribution board or any other KNX component. And also some explication about the funtions you are using (beside basic functions like light on / off, shade open / close)

It is very likely that you cannot go back to traditional wiring as the wiring in KNX is different (no high voltage at the KNX devices, sensors and actors are different).

It seems that the original installer did not make a good job or the requirements were so special that they needed a HS4 for the realization.

[AntarcticChristian]

you can switch to another system

in my opinion: this means replace the homeserver by another system, but the other equipments will remain KNX.

[Pygmalion]

@Admin DL-Bereich

Hello, I had two Gira HomeServer 3. I assume these are not Gira Doorbell or Gira Client?

You are suggesting that I switch to another KNX system? But what about the machinery that are operated by the Gira HomServer 3? There is probably some program on the server and knowing the local distributor, they will refuse to share details so I keep bleeding money to them.

[vento66]

You paid allready for this, there is no reason, hold it back. And you dont neddt to switch to „another“ system. All KNX devices are compatible. Maybe, you need another Server. There is freeware also available.

[AntarcticChristian]

So the local distributor recently installed a HomeServer 3?
This is not the actual system. We are actually (since years) at Homeserver 4.

Where are you living?
At least in Germany it is clear that you should get the program details (config files) for your installation.

As said before: If done correctly for all standard functions you do not need the HomeServer. The switches directly communicate with the relays in the distribution board without the need of a Homeserver.

[Pygmalion]

Hello, both. The location of the apartment is Croatia.

Gira controls lights, blinds and heating/cooling. There are two types of heating/cooling in the apartment: ceiling and convector. Originally, everything except bathroom temperature and convector functions were also controlled by push buttons. After my insistence, they installed buttons for the bathroom temperature and convector on/off switch, which of course they charged for. They say that there are other convector functions that are automatically controlled by the HomeServer and cannot be controlled by buttons.

I asked for the system details with the addresses of all the actuators and they never replied. They are very happy to have me in some sort of servitude and charge for all service visits. Since I know a bit about electronics and programming, I even considered creating and programming my own RaspberryPi based server, but I can not do it without this vital information.

I am stuck and Gira Germany does not give a damn either.

[Beleuchtfix]

It seems that you don‘t have the knx project files. In Germany you would have the right to receive them from the service company. If you have it, you would have a chance to have somebody else to look over the files and get an overview. With the homeserver you must have an IP access to you system, so somebody could service the system from abroad.
I hope you find sombody to service your house, who knows KNX well.
Regards, Florian

[ets3-user]

Hello, im an systemintegrator who installs often gira homeserver.
I currently have a project in Zadar where i will be in about 8 weeks.
Maybe we can have a look together to your building.
What problems do u have at present?

Kind regards
Christian

[Pygmalion]

@Everybody

So you mean that I should ask the company that installed the Gira system to give me the KNX project files and/or the ETS folder (is that the same thing?) and give these files to another company to look into them?

If I can switch from Gira to another KNX system, I would be happy to do so, because Gira Germany does not care one bit about the situation. If so, which KNX system would you advise me to switch to?

ets3-user

In just 10 years, two HomeServers have failed and even when the HomeServer is working, there are at least 1-2 service visits because something stopped working. There are continious problems and the Gira provider seems only too happy to charge me all these replacements and service visits very expensively.

[vento66]

There isn no "GIRA KNX System" you can mix all KNX Manufacturer together.

[Pygmalion]

There isn no "GIRA KNX System" you can mix all KNX Manufacturer togehter.

OK, I got that. So I can replace Gira HomeServer with a product of another company? What do I need to make a switch? KNX project files and/or the ETS folder or is this the same? What about the program within HomeServer that controls convector? What alternative server would you recommend?

Thanks for the help.

[DerStandart]

So I can replace Gira HomeServer with a product of another company?

Yes

KNX project files and/or the ETS folder

I think you mean the same. You need the project file.

[Hightech]

You are complaining about the GIRA homeserver - I have 3 HS3 and 2 HS4 running for up to 14 years now - ok, one has dropped dead, too, and 2 power supply units dropped dead (15€ for a new one). All of them are running without the need for a service (unless I do enhancements / add new usecases on the system).

So I assume that your problems and especially the situation that you need a service twice a year because something got stuck are not the result of the HS but the result of a bad implementation! So if you change the server hardware to another system you might have the same issues if the installation is not reviewed and corrected completely.

(I do neither work at Gira nor do I have any benefit of arguing pro HS!)