ETS4, N148/22 and bus monitor

[Sipple]

Wenn man bedenkt das Klaus bei der IT-GmbH beschäftigt ist, und diese die ETS schreibt...

Wenn man das WEISS machts Sinn, ja

[Warichet]

First of all, you have to use another EIB/KNX interface to programm the FIRST physical address

OK, I did the same.

If this is done, press the Program-LED for more than 5s (but not more than 10s) and the Interface will automatically assign additional physical addresses.

Indeed, this is right according to the doc. You say "assign additional", here, opinions may diverge, it depends on what is ment by "assign".
Imho, those additional addresses are simply "enabled", not assigned to anything.

In my case, it was 1.1.85 to 1.1.89, so FIVE more addresses. 4 for tunneling, 1 for object server.

How come you have such a large gap between your first PA (1.1.63) and the other PA ?
Imho, the fact that those addresses are in an ascending sequence is just coïncidence, maybe you had a large gap in your address space and the N148 used it. I think it's not guaranteed to have a continuous sequence of 5 addresses in an ascending order.

In my case, I use a descending sequence, starting from 1.1.249 and down. For ETS4, I assigned 1.1.248, if I get you right it shouldn't have worked, I should have used one of the pre-defined addresses.
Also, if that was true, it shouldn't be allowed to use an address like 1.1.253 as there is no room enough for additional 5 PA.
Furthermore, I have some adresses above 1.1.249, they should have conflicted.
The more I look at this stuff, the more I get confused. Maybe I better stop now

one can read that the additional physical addresses can be set by ETS. How???
Where???

Same question, same trouble, same pain

Surprisingly, the ETS does not show USED additional physical tunneling addresses, except the own one.

Mmm, I cannot confirm everything. Maybe our setup is different. I use ETS3.0e for the real stuff and ETS4 Lite just for test.
When I scan the bus, I don't see the eibd PA, btw eibd IS running (grouspwrite works)
When I start ETS4 on another PC, I don't see the ETS4 PA
When I scan the bus and run the compare project, the PA 1.1.249 (eibd) is marked with a red cross (missing or defective)

1.1.63 = physical address initially used to program the N148 via another EIB/KNX-Interface, program Application
(set up name and e.g. DHCP), test Program-LED. Not used for anything else.
1.1.85 = right now used by my ALIX1D board under Debian Squeeze with EIBD. (NOT FOUND BY ETS when searching for
existing physical addresses on the bus).
1.1.86 = right now used by my Atom board under Debian Lenny with EIBD. (NOT FOUND BY ETS when searching for
existing physical addresses on the bus).
1.1.87 = right now used locally by the ETS4, found by ETS when searching for existing physical addresses on the
bus and marked as local.
1.1.88 = found by ETS when searching for existing physical addresses on the bus, not used by anything yet, so
considered free.
1.1.89 = found by ETS when searching for existing physical addresses on the bus, not used by anything yet, so
considered free.

Are you running all tests with only 1 PC ?

Only issue is the sporadic Bus-Monitor Error Message you got as well. In my case, I was able to run the Bus Monitor by switching power of the N148 off and on.

I'd love to have sporadic errors. I get a steady NO GO

The more I look at my N148, the more I love my FT1.2

[saft6luck]

You should start the automatic address search feature and then just use the tunnels as they are. In ETS you can change the PA of the tunnel you are using right now for ETS - that's it.

And it is: first come first serve -> the device asking for a tunnel first gets it first -> e.g. if you close 2 connections and open 1 again it then can change to an other tunnel

If you manage to set the PA of 2 tunnels to the same PA you will lose one tunnel -> in ETS change the PA of a tunnel only if it is really important.

[Warichet]

Hi saft6luck,

Thank you for the detailed reply.
I've worked a bit on the topic, trying to understand what's happening, but I failed

You should start the automatic address search feature and then just use the tunnels as they are. In ETS you can change the PA of the tunnel you are using right now for ETS - that's it.

Sounds great, doesn't work for me, still don't have the smallest clue.

First, I've assigned PA 1.1.244 to ETS, make sure 1.1.245,6,7,8 are free.
1.1.249 is used by eibd.
ETS works fine, but the bus monitor still fails with the same error message.
Then, I've killed eibd, reset the N148, but 1.1.249 is still in use, bizarre, and the bus monitor still doesn't work.

Is this combination N148/22, ETS4 Lite, bus monitor supposed to work ?

I yes, any idea about how to troubleshoot ?

Correction:
the NAS restarts eibd automatically, so I've shutdown the NAS, reset the N148, restart ETS4 and guess what ?
it gets PA 1.1.60 (without any action from my side)
the bus monitor works (without any action about the PA)
Although I can't see the PA assigned to the bus monitor

Restarting the bus monitor again doesn't work anymore.

I can't spend my life running from floor to floor to stop/start eibd and reset the N148.

I think I'll wait another year ...

[Warichet]

I've done another test, this time using the HomeServer EibLib/IP as the selected interface.
ETS4 works, and I can stop /start the bus monitor at will, no reset, no problem, works fine.

Imho there is something wrong in the combination ETS4 Lite, N148/22, bus monitor, eibd.

[saft6luck]

Sounds great, doesn't work for me, still don't have the smallest clue.

So ... did you start the automatic address assignment in N148? Basically the N148 will try to find some unused addresses and you will not know these ones

First, I've assigned PA 1.1.244 to ETS, make sure 1.1.245,6,7,8 are free.
1.1.249 is used by eibd.

You can set up a connection via ETS and then assign e.g. 1.1.244 to this tunnel.
If eibd (and this I don't know) can set it's addrees for it's tunnel this might be ok but in general eibd will just get an additional tunnel and will use the address which the N148 assigned to this tunnel.

Correction:
the NAS restarts eibd automatically, so I've shutdown the NAS, reset the N148, restart ETS4 and guess what ?
it gets PA 1.1.60 (without any action from my side)
the bus monitor works (without any action about the PA)
Although I can't see the PA assigned to the bus monitor

YES, this is how it is meant to work

Restarting the bus monitor again doesn't work anymore.

I can't spend my life running from floor to floor to stop/start eibd and reset the N148.

From my point of view something blocks (keeps connection) to your N148 and finally you can't connect any more. It might be the eibd using more connections at one time? Try without eibd running.

[Warichet]

did you start the automatic address assignment in N148?

Ouups, I thought you were mentionning the scan of ETS
I think I did enable the automatic address assignment, as a part of the initial setup procedure. How can I check ? besides trial & error

the N148 will try to find some unused addresses and you will not know these ones

ûh somewhat uncomfortable

If eibd (and this I don't know) can set it's addrees for it's tunnel this might be ok but in general eibd will just get an additional tunnel and will use the address which the N148 assigned to this tunnel.

I thought the right way would be to shutdown eibd, start with a clean N148, no PA assigned. Start ETS4 and assign a PA to the I/F.
Start eibd, as you mention, it will get the next free PA.

But imagine, along the way, you close ETS4, along the way you restart eibd, it might get the first available PA, which might be free now if ETS4 is not activ. If that scenario is correct, it's a mess !

It's a bit the same story as DHCP vs fixed IP

something blocks (keeps connection) to your N148 and finally you can't connect any more. It might be the eibd using more connections at one time? Try without eibd running.

I did it, no luck.
Although suspecting eibd to eat up all connections is not a valid assumption. If it were true, I should have seen it when trying to assign additional PA, but they were all free.

This thing beats me
Let's wait for another member to come up with the same setup. It will help to determine if there is something wrong with my particular installation (most probably) or a generic problem (some call that a )

Thank you for your comments.


I wish you all the best for a Happy New Year

[saft6luck]

Ouups, I thought you were mentionning the scan of ETS
I think I did enable the automatic address assignment, as a part of the initial setup procedure. How can I check ? besides trial & error

It's not 'enable' ... it's a one-time setup. You should start it again, just to be sure.

[..]But imagine, along the way, you close ETS4, along the way you restart eibd, it might get the first available PA, which might be free now if ETS4 is not activ. If that scenario is correct, it's a mess !

Do you really need to know the address of the tunnel used by eibd?????

Although suspecting eibd to eat up all connections is not a valid assumption. If it were true, I should have seen it when trying to assign additional PA, but they were all free.

How should you see that one or the other Tunnel/PA is used? Only if someone sends ... but still one can open all tunnels for listening and you will not see anything.

I wish you all the best for a Happy New Year

Yes, Happy New Year 2012!

[Warichet]

It's not 'enable' ... it's a one-time setup.

OK

Do you really need to know the address of the tunnel used by eibd?????

No, not really, just nice to know what's going on

How should you see that one or the other Tunnel/PA is used? Only if someone sends ... but still one can open all tunnels for listening and you will not see anything.

OK
I thought, if a tunnel is open, either for read or write, it should get a PA in order to communicate over the bus.