KNX Alarm - What do I need?

[Vestireme]

Raymond,

Cytech may be something very simple to install if you want to do simple things. One must be prepared to make some wiring, but for me not a big problem.

For me the bigest advantage is that you can use normal double tech mouvement detectors (pir + radio ) with a ridiculous price vs the knx ones and much more fail proof.
I suggest you look at this file

[Lucien]

Hi Raymond,

1. the Hardware was proposed and installed by the electrician. I configured the alarm unit (via ETS) and the homeserver. In the market you will find a lot of similar or nearly identical units. I made no market research.
2. To combine the alarm unit and the homeserver is not really necessary but very helpful. In my installation the alarm unit perform the noiseful alarms and the homeserver the noiseless alarms, telephone and e-mail.
   So I can decide very simple, depending on my personal circumstances, vacation and so on, to switch rapidly who schould be called in case of an alarm, myself, an agency, my children and so on.
   Then you need a "reset button", a "test button" and so on, all this is realized in the homeserver. Further I am archiving detailed information and send this information in case of alarm.
   To avoid false alarms you may wish to do some prework on sensor signals and son on ..
   Then (l'appétit vient en mangeant) you may wish to do some work when activating the alarm unit, for example turning off lights or stop actors or force stand by of your heating central and the appropriate actions when deactivating the unit. So, I would not miss the combination of KNX alarm unit and Homeserver.

Have a nice day. Lucien.

[Warichet]

Hi Lucien,

I use an alarm unit form Berker (KNX Alarm central
unit #75730010)

It looks similar to the ABB SCM/S 1.1. What made you select the one rather then the other ?

combined with a lot of KNX-Sensors and a Gira Homserver.

That's my case, too.

Together with some logic added by me combined with elements of the Homeserver Software

The system looks sophisticated, but you still needed the HS ? or was it just for the Visu ?

I am convinced that the usage of an Alarm central unit is essential because it is very complex to create the nesserary complex logic.

Full ack.

Thank you for the reply.

[Lucien]

Hi,
I use an alarm unit form Berker (KNX Alarm central unit #75730010) combined with a lot of KNX-Sensors and a Gira Homserver. Together with some logic added by me combined with elements of the Homeserver Software, the system works fine. I am convinced that the usage of an Alarm central unit is essential because it is very complex to create the nesserary complex logic. Myself, I feel better, knowing that the crucial tasks are done by the specialised unit.
Yours. Lucien

[Warichet]

Hi Peter,

you are installing an eibd on your asterisk

I already have an Asterisk and eibd.

you are able to read the events an put it on an phone call.

Indeed, this will help in the second phase.
But in the first phase, I need to select an alarm device, using the existing GA and easy to integrate with the HS

The other way is to make an event an an IP-Telegramm from your hs to the asterisk which makes a call.

OK, I've already done something similar, with a SIP call to an IPPhone.

Thank you for the suggestions.

[TRex]

warichet, if you are installing an eibd on your asterisk ( thorsten gering knows how to do it ) you are able to read the events an put it on an phone call...
does this help?

The other way is to make an event an an IP-Telegramm from your hs to the asterisk which makes a call.

you can look here: https://knx-user-forum.de/knx-eib-fo...-schalten.html

Peter

[Warichet]

Hi,

I'm looking for a simple KNX alarm system.
A system that would allow to re-use all existing KNX devices as input via their GA.

I've read many posts about the subject, btw, I used the SuFu
I've seen nice systems like Cytech Comfort, Hestia Varuna3, ABB L240, Telenot EIB, but they all offer much too much features and, as I already have a HomeServer, almost 75% of the functions are redundant.

So I'm focussing on systems like ABB MT/S8.12.2M, ABB SCM/S 1.1 or similar.

Someone has a practical experience and wants to share some comments about those devices ?
How and how easy to integrate with the HomeServer ?

Thank you

[TheMax74]

Hello again,
you can attach more than one UCM.
About keypad, remember that other than standard Cytech keypads, you can use any KNX panel, because you can map every key to a GA.
I have 3 keypads, mainly because from these keypad you can hear security alarm signals, zone voice announcements and answering machine messages. I use two iPhone and an ASUS netbook fixed to the wall, with Gira QuadClient running on it.
Basically, every KNX device (Gira pushbutton sensors2, for example) can become a Comfort controller.
...and yes, it's an unique product and it's very reliable and secure. Never had a false alarm (thanks to "auto zone shunt" function, "multiple zone alarm trigger" function and, obviously, thanks to the programming capabilities) and never had to reset the system.
It simply works.

The counterpart of systems like this, is that it's not plug and play. You have to mount it on a wall, add battery, connect UCM's trough cables, etc...
Nothing to pain for, but for newbies can be a bit frustrating.

[Warichet]

I suggest you to download this and this.

OK fine.
Indeed, my first task is to see if the device fits into the intended place, near the front door, and if I can install a second "station" or "keyboard" in the sleeping room, from where I can enable/disable the alarm.

By reading the doc, I understand that there are several model of "UCM" modules available, but only one can be installed ?
I obviously need the KNX I/F and the Ethernet/IP I/F for integration with the HS.

but i suggest you to learn pdf manuals, because they are costantly updating firmware and pdf's are updated too. Read it carefully, you will teach yourself in the best way.

OK

Keep in mind that is mainly an alarm system, with home automation capabilities. It's very powerfull, but it needs a lot of study.

Feel free to ask me again.

Thank you for the kind offer. I'll try not to abuse

PS: how come this system is not well know in the KNX world ? I can't see a competitor with the same features, which makes it unique, right ?

[TheMax74]

I suggest you to download this and this.

Keep in mind that Comfort is well established from many years. For this reason, you have two ways to program it:
1) Using keypad, by entering boring codes (old method, used when installers aren't aware of PC programming)
2) Using Comfigurator software (best way)

Comfort has some sample codes in this support forum, but i suggest you to learn pdf manuals, because they are costantly updating firmware and pdf's are updated too. Read it carefully, you will teach yourself in the best way.
Keep in mind that is mainly an alarm system, with home automation capabilities. It's very powerfull, but it needs a lot of study.

Register yourself on comfortforums.com. You will find LY Chiu (cytech CEO) and others developers replying quickly to your inquiries.

Feel free to ask me again.
Bye.

[Warichet]

The maximum number of zones is currently 96. You can setup all 96 zones as "virtual zone", if you like.

I've downloaded some files from Cytech's site.
With what should I start my readings to get acquainted with the system ?

[TheMax74]

Mmm, sounds good, worth an indepth look at it.
Any known limitations ? i.e. the number of "virtual zone" ?

The maximum number of zones is currently 96. You can setup all 96 zones as "virtual zone", if you like.
The known limitation (and it should be considered at the beginning of GA assignment), is that "virtual GA zones" should be consecutive.
For example, my GA's for security is 2/0/0 and i need to reserve from 2/0/0 to 2/0/96 for Comfort zones.
Note that not only you can map KNX sesors to a zone, but you can also assign standard zones inputs to a KNX GA.
This is an example:
1.jpg


This is a screenshot of the Comfort configuration software.
2.jpg

Any idea about the price, or a pointer to it ?

Yes, there are many online stores selling Comfort products.
The top of the line (Comfort Ultra II), including EN03 metal enclosure is about £380 inc. VAT
Plus UCM/KNX about £120 and, if you wish to have full control over Comfort alarm system, £140 for ethernet interface.
The support forum is great, if you have any concern or problem with the system, they help you very quickly. Firmware upgrades and software are free of charge.

Thank you for the time & trouble to reply

You're welcome.

[Warichet]

For conventional Sensors only, e.g. Reed-contacts, see ABB´s Sicherheitsterminal, 8fach, REG.
Otherwise have a look on JUNG´s TC Plus KNX

Thank you

[Warichet]

You can map a GA as "virtual zone".

Mmm, sounds good, worth an indepth look at it.
Any known limitations ? i.e. the number of "virtual zone" ?

I have KNX PIR's and Gira TKS-IP-Gateway linked in that way.

it's also on my "to do" list . This dumb list has a strong tendency to grow

i'm not affiliate with Cytech.

That was clear in my mind.
Please don't take offense from dumb questions.
Dummies ask only dumb questions, that's how you recognise them

Any idea about the price, or a pointer to it ?

Thank you for the time & trouble to reply

[TheMax74]

Yes, you can.
You can map a GA as "virtual zone".
You can send and receive telegrams.
There are several system variables you can use too (system armed, alarm type, alarm keypad simulation, incoming phone messages, etc.) and that you cand send/receive via GA's. You can also use Comfort logic for deep interaction.
I have KNX PIR's and Gira TKS-IP-Gateway linked in that way.

Mine is only a suggestion, i'm not affiliate with Cytech.
Started with Homeseer, i've found my "perfect" and problem-less setup in this way.