Dimming

[MikeMelga]

Hi everyone.

I am planning my KNX installation and I am somewhat confused with the dimming actuators.
There are various types of dimming actuators: 0-10v, 1-10v, Dali and 50-300w (or similar).
I want to dimm led 6w/9w 230v GU10 lamps. Dali is out of the question because I don't have lamps/sockets for that.

Which dimmers should I buy? 1-10v or 0-10v?

I also have a Gira 1031 dimmer(50-500w). Can I use it somehow to dimm the leds?

Thanks.

[PeterPan]

Hello..

dimming LEDs is the best with DALI.

I don't know what you write about "Sockets/Lamps" you don't own for DALI???

For GU10 Halogen you use a Halogen balast
--> For GU10 LED you should use a DALI-Ballast

For 6VA/9VA you use a LED Ballast
--> For 6VA/9VA you should use a DALI LED Ballast.

You may also "use" Dimming actuators, but please ask the developing Company before you buy/install them "How much LED-Ballast 6/9VA may i connect, please!"

Best wishes without DALI
Peter

[MikeMelga]

Ok...I have to be honest: I don't have a clue what DALI is but, from what I read, you need to have special bulbs and wiring for dali. Right?

I already have the fixtures installed and the wiring done. All that is missing is the lamps/bulbs. Can I still use DALI?

[PeterPan]

Hello..

you need an aditional Wiring for DALI: 1 pair of 0.8 to the DALI-Ballast.

If you have already installed the Fixtures, you need to tell me how much LEDs with which Wattage you have installed.

For example:
- 3 Fixtures with 9VA
- 2 Fixtures with 6VA
etc.

It would be better, if it would be possible to put in an additonal pair of 0.8 into the tube?

Best regards
peter

[MikeMelga]

Ok.

That 0.8 cable connects the DALI ballast to what?

I've made a (stupid) picture of my setup:


I have the KNX dimmer connect to 10 gu10 spots. I plan to use 10x9w led lamps or 10x6w led lamps (I need to see the actual light of each one).

So...what would I need more besides the extra 0.8 cable? A DALI gateway and a DALI ballast? How do I connect them?

Thanks, PeterPan


Edit: can't seem to add the image.

[MikeMelga]

Ok. Here it is.

[PeterPan]

Hello..

ok.. for 10x LED 9VA it should work with the KNX 500VA Dimmer.

1. Problem is the minimum Balast. The LED have nearly no one. 10 LED with Ballast should be working.
2. Problem is, that you cannot use 500VA Dimmer for 500VA-LED!!! only 20% maximum = 100VA for LED
3. Problem is, that LED Ballast are capacity Loads!!! There are high energy peaks while dimming with phase cutting.
4. Problem is, that it is not possible to dimm LEDs linear (with none of the dimmers, conventional NO, KNX NO)

--> Dali is better. But if you just want to dimm 10 LEDs there is to much "work" to change it. Better next time :-)

Best wishes to Portugal
Peter

[MikeMelga]

Thanks, PeterPan.

Yes, I guess DALI is a bit too much for such small use

Just let me ask 2 more questions:

- What if I want to dimm a 6x6w light group? Can I use a 300w dimmer?
- What if I need to dim CFL lamps? Which dimmer should I get?

[PeterPan]

Thanks, PeterPan.

Just let me ask 2 more questions:
- What if I want to dimm a 6x6w light group? Can I use a 300w dimmer?
- What if I need to dim CFL lamps? Which dimmer should I get?

Hello ..

6x6VA LED should work with 300 VA. But you need to test it. If it is not working choose a bigger one.

CFL? You think about Fluorecent Lamps like this? You need a 1-10V Ballast and a 1-10V KNX-Dimming Actuator like this.

Best regards
Peter

[MikeMelga]

CFL? You think about Fluorecent Lamps like this? You need a 1-10V Ballast and a 1-10V KNX-Dimming Actuator like this.

Not exactly.
I mean these:
Megaman dimmable low energy CFL classic GLS shape 11W E27 warm white | eBay
or these:
20W Dimmable Low Energy CFL Spiral Light Bulb; BC & ES | eBay

I guess these come with the balast installed.

[PeterPan]

Hello..

oh no..

1. Ok, LED Dimming is maybe OK.
2. CFL Dimming is worse!

Same like the ballast for LED, the Ballast in the Socket (Electronic) has got NO minumum Ballast for KNX Dimmer. So you need alot of them to get alittle minimum Ballast that the KNX Dimmer may handle to detect what Type of Load is connected.

How much of them you want to dimm in a Group? Just one? Forget it.

Best regards, Peter

[MikeMelga]

How much of them you want to dimm in a Group? Just one? Forget it.

Yes, I guess it's better to forget it

Thanks for all your help, PeterPan

[PeterPan]

Hello..

you are Welcome!

All the best wishes, Peter

[MikeMelga]

Ok... almost one year later I can share my experiences.

Contrary to what I would expect I had no problem with CFL dimming. I've installed a Siemens dimming module connected to various Osram ballasts. No problem at all.

My problems are all with the Led dimming. I've installed a Gira 1031 00 Single channel dimming actuator 50-500W connected to 10 led fixtures. Each feixtures has a GU10 9W dimmable led spot.

The problem is that the led's dimm from 100% to about 80% and then shut off.

Assuming I won't change the gira device... what led configuration, type or number should I use to achieve decent dimming?

Thanks.