Compact Fluorescent Lamp & dimmers

[Warichet]

Hi,

Compact Fluorescent Lamp and dimmers have the reputation of not going well together.

Seems things are changing.
https://www.1stopelectrics.com/product/yca20d-e27


I've ordered one bulb and report my findings back here.

[EIB-Freak]

Note: Electronic dimmers, for example KNX-Dimmers, will not work. Only normal Dimmers (with variable Resistor) would work. Switchable can mean also: by one or two-times switching the Switch on an off an on, the Lamps go`s to 50% or 75% brightness.

[Warichet]

Note: Electronic dimmers, for example KNX-Dimmers, will not work. Only normal Dimmers (with variable Resistor) would work. Switchable can mean also: by one or two-times switching the Switch on an off an on, the Lamps go`s to 50% or 75% brightness.

No ! don't think so !

If you take the time to read the article , you can read the following:

This light bulb is designed to be used with a standard domestic dimmer switch (with phase cut technology, leading or trailing edge). For optimum compatibility choose Varilight dimmer switches.

imho, "phase cut technology" is specific to electronic dimmers
and "leading or trailing edge" is specific to selfic (inductive) and capacitive loads.

More info about the technology can be found at the Wiki: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phasenanschnittsteuerung


Anyway, I'll report my findings, if any interest ...

A pointer to a benchmark. To be noticed, Osram is not the leader.
http://www.varilight.co.uk/Pages/pdf...nch%20Test.pdf

[Christian.]

Just tested a CFL lamp with a (non KNX) universal dimmer from Jung (1254UDE) which uses phase cut technology with leading or trailing edge depending on the the load which is sensed by the dimmer. I tested the CFL together with some classic Light Bulbs so the dimmer should have used trailig edge. The result was like Michael predicted, CFL dimmes down to like 75% and thats it.

@Raymond - i'm really looking forward to hear your findings, but please include the dimmer type / model.

Greetings from Vienna - Christian

edit: I used a non dimmable CFL Lamp - didnt know that there are dimmable around yet. But i was allways wondering why becouse T5 lamps had already digital dimmable ballast long ago. So imho this could be only due to cheap digital ballasts.

[Warichet]

@Christian

i'm really looking forward to hear your findings, but please include the dimmer type / model.

I've a couple of Merten 649315 with some free ports. Is this OK ?
Also, it will take some time before I get the bulb and report here.

edit: I used a non dimmable CFL Lamp

Your last edit puts things back in place.
In fact, you confirm the general opinion that CFL are not dimmable. It was already known

- didnt know that there are dimmable around yet.

Well, that's the purpose of my post

@EIB-Freak

Electronic dimmers, for example KNX-Dimmers, will not work.

This is a rather strong statement !
You are a well respected professional and as such I have to take you remark seriously.
Nevertheless, your quick challenge is quite questionnable, it means you don't trust the above mentionned benchmarks, but why would you trust me and my poor test then ?
Also, this material is quite new, and I wonder if your statement is based on personal experience, in which case, would you be so kind to mention the reference of the dimmable bulb you've tested ?

Thank you

[Warichet]

Note: Electronic dimmers, for example KNX-Dimmers, will not work.

I got a couple of bulbs today, Varilight Digiflux, E27, ref: YCA20D-E27
Tested with Merten 649315 (KNX-Dimmer, 4 x 150W)
Works as advertised.

[MatthiasS]

Good to know! Thanks!

[Taxus]

Was meint Ihr: wird es künftig aufgrund dieser Entwicklung ein neues Dimmersegment geben, da ja doch deutlich kleinere Leistungen zu dimmen sind? Weniger Leistung, weniger Abwärme, preiswertere Bauteile, kompaktere Bauformen, ...

[Warichet]

Hi Taxus,

I'm not sure the question is for me .... nevertheless I'll bring my (very) modest contribution.

wird es künftig aufgrund dieser Entwicklung ein neues Dimmersegment geben,

Well, yes, it is a new development. I thought it was worth mentionning it. If you read the benchmark, you realize that there are already some bulbs on the market.

[quote=Taxus;30967] da ja doch deutlich kleinere Leistungen zu dimmen sind?

You are correct, as always but I don't really care dimming the input power, but I do care dimming the effective light. In this particular instance, the bulb (quoted as a 20W) gives an effective light of +/-100W. So, I want to dimm this "virtual" 100W.

[lobo]

Dear Raymond,

thank you for your test with the light bulb. I just started to change some bulbs at home with flourescent lights and I think that it is very dependant on the application if it is reasonable to use these lights.

For this reason, I would appreciate if you could give some additional information:

1. Compared to a conventional bulb, does the linearity of the light intensity seem to be ok? Does it feel that at high intensities, the changes can be regulated as well as in the the low intensities?
2. I am personally very sensitive to flickering (for instance, I hate the flickering LED back lights of modern cars). Do you see any flickering (especially with low intensities)?
3. I personally like it very much that the color tone changes when you dim a conventional bulb (gives a warm color). This is probably not the case with floureszence bulbs. Do you see a difference to a conventional light source?

I know that the answering of these questions depend very much on one's own subjective impression, but perhaps you can give some hints for this.

Best regards,

Stefan

[Warichet]

Hi Stefan,

I would appreciate if you could give some additional information

I must admit that the first test was a quick one.
I'll try to come back with a decent answer to your concerns, hence asking for some patience.

[Warichet]

Hi Lobo,

I know that the answering of these questions depend very much on one's own subjective impression

Yes, indeed, hence my general purpose disclaimer Don't want to be flamed right away
All opinions expressed in this post are my own and I take absolutely no reponsibility of them.
Also, I have no candelameter, luxmeter or any other measuring device, so opinions are really, really subjective.

I think that it is very dependant on the application if it is reasonable to use these lights.

I agree. Maybe a good place to start, is an obvious place, with rather much usage and where the
results can be easily appreciated.

My test environment:
I've got 3 bulbs. Varilight Digiflux, E27, ref: YCA20D-E27
Remove old lamp, screw-in new bulb, power Off/On the dimmer to force load recognition.
Tested with Merten 649315 (standard KNX-Dimmer, 4 x 150W, although I've been unable to program this crummy thing to switch the light Off after bus revovery or download :-( (posted a question to Merten TechSupp).
Tested by 4 users.
Room: kitchen, 5x5m, walls are natural stone, light beige.
Test 1: lamp hanging rather low above the eating table, (some kind of conical reflector)
Test 2: lamp hanging rather high above the work table, (some kind of conical reflector)

1. Compared to a conventional bulb, does the linearity of the light intensity seem to be ok?

Imho, Yes.

Does it feel that at high intensities, the changes can be regulated as well as in the the low intensities?

Imho, Yes.
My dimmer has it's minimum set at 10%. I didn't change it, as I see no point dimming
below that treshold. Also, the dimmer was setup with smooth On & Off, so there might be
glitches that I haven't seen due to the programmed delay. Obviously, this is not a scientific test.

2. I am personally very sensitive to flickering (for instance, I hate the flickering LED back lights of modern cars).

We don't have "modern cars" over here. I'm burried deep in rural France. So I've no idea what you mean.

Do you see any flickering (especially with low intensities)?

Heuu, no, although I test under normal circumstances, that is: I look at the table, reading a paper, not at the lamp. While looking at the bulb at very low power +/- 10%, you see some "movement" inside the bulb, but it has no influence on the shedded light, no visible flickering.

3. This is probably not the case with floureszence bulbs.

No, indeed.

Do you see a difference to a conventional light source?

Imho, Yes, maybe the big difference is here.
The light is intense, 1.300 lumen according to the doc, I've the impression it is more brilliant then a conventional 100W. The light is cold* white (the doc says: "warm white", so you have to believe the doc
As far as I can see, there is no change in the light spectrum, so, no dark red at low power as with incandescent bulbs, but with no measuring device, ûh, how can I be sure ?

* tester's opinion differ here, some say "cold", some say "warm"

@EIB-Freak
Seems you have to reconsider your statement.
btw, are you still there ? (not seen in the user-list)

[lobo]

wow, this is a detailed description, thank you Raymond!!

Why I asked is that I thought to use these lights perhaps for my exterior lights. I already chose lights were you can use flurencence lights - and I can imagine to create some interesting "effects" with dimmers outside.

In addition I thought to change the lights for the child's room - but here I have installed a dimmer and I need this.

So dimming seems to work really fine, but

We don't have "modern cars" over here. I'm burried deep in rural France. So I've no idea what you mean.

Lucky you!! But watch out - the new models of some french cars have these LED lights, as well.

you see some "movement" inside the bulb, but it has no influence on the shedded light, no visible flickering.

This is what I was afraid of - some people don't care about this, I tend to get distracted by such a flickering - but this may arise from dimmer, as well. It can be that the consumed power is too low for the dimmer and it does not work correcty any more. I know these effects even from conventional dimmers with conventional bulbs.

The light is cold* white (the doc says: "warm white", so you have to believe the doc

I bought some of those: http://www.pearl.de/a-PE5369-5601.shtml - and they are really peaces of crap! The "Vollspektrum" color feels freezing cold and even in my office I removed them.

@EIB-Freak
Seems you have to reconsider your statement.
btw, are you still there ? (not seen in the user-list)

I noticed this, as well and I am pretty sad about this. I liked his direct and competent contributions to this forum.

Thank you once again, Raymond, I think I'll buy some of these lights.

Cheers,

Stefan

[Warichet]

So dimming seems to work really fine

Someone else has tested with a Hager TXA213, works fine also, but he noticed a very small delay, +/- 0,5sec at start.
I didn't see it due to the programming of my Merten dimmer

I think I'll buy some of these lights.

I can provide some details per PN, (advertising is not welcome here ) about where to go shopping. Some resellers charge 34£ for shipping (crazy )