Zisterne Füllstand Installationsanleitung

[anlo007]

@warichet
we measure the statik pressure, which builds up by the 1-2 m of oil within the tank.

Öl leitet nicht, sondern isoliert. mit 0-10V oder 4-20mA Sensoren ist man also absolut sicher.

Wer dies nicht möchte nimmt halt de US-Sensor, der wird oberhalb der Flüssigkeit montiert.

[Warichet]

Dann noch für die Heizung / Drucküberwachung einen P121 www.tecson.de

I got the reply from Prignitz about the usability of their PT-LM in a fuel tank (diesel)

for the application you need an ex approval.
This we have about our partner company ADZ.
The LT-LP explosion but it is expensive.
380, - Euro + cable

Does the Tecson P121 have this "ex" certification ?

[TRex]

@warichet, i will ask tecson for you at monday..
hope they will work.
Peter

[Warichet]

Hi Peter,

@warichet, i will ask tecson for you at monday..

Thank you Peter

At the Tecson site, it is written "may be obtained in EEX execution"
So my question is: for the price you mentionned, is it an EEX execution ?

In which case, it is an excellent deal as compared to Prignitz.
There are strong regulation about this topic.
Also, insurances wouldn't work in case of accident, if the proper regulations aren't followed.

The model "Tank-Spion Digital LX-2" seems more adequate to fit the need for a fuel tank, but no idea of the price, nor KNX interface possibilities. (I've skipped this model during my survey of the fuel tank sensors).
It would be very interesting if the the probe of the "Tank-Spion Digital LX-2" can be obtained separately and fitted with an A/D converter 4-20mA.

PS: I've read and re-read the doc of the P121, still fail to understand how it works .... unless you have to drill a hole in the bottom of the tank !
Which implies
1) the tank is empty
2) you have access to the inside to fit the screw on the sensor. With modern plastic tanks, i.e. Sotralentz, this isn't possible.
I guess, the sensor is not designed to be immerged in the fuel, only the pressure caption part of the sensor should be in contact with the fuel.
Is the above analyze correct ?

[TRex]

warichet,
i think the p121 is the wrong one. i will never drill a hole in an fuel tank.. -)

the tds6023 is working by the pressure of the fuel level, it is stainless steel and i think it can be used in an ex-area. They are writing :
Add-Blue and gazoil...

But for sure information we have to wait until monday or after the holidays.

The sensors are all working in the same way (4-20ma) and can be used with an "analogeingang"

it will be helpful if you tell me how long you need the cable, it is part of the price. 6 meters are included.

and, do you need it in an gazoil or an fuel tank? There are different regulations in germany.

i bought for 430 € 2 sensors ( 1*p121 for the pressure in my heating-system 0-4 bar and 1 tds6023 with 12 m cable)
peter

[anlo007]

just as a comparison:
The pepperle ultrasonic sensor to mount on top of the tank (no problem with EX and fuel) cost 175 € with 4-20mA output. You can connect it with any wire via a plug.

[Warichet]

i think the p121 is the wrong one. i will never drill a hole in an fuel tank..

OK, I wanted to draw your attention on this spot. I think it is designed for industrial tanks.

The sensors are all working in the same way (4-20ma) and can be used with an "analogeingang"

Yes, OK. That's for the interface to the ouside world, but I was wondering about the inside workings. Some sensor have a mechanical or physical part in contact with the fuel, so no problem. Others have the electronics embedded in the sensor and the sensor is immerged in the fuel, hence electric current is flowing into it, although very modest (4-20mA). Suppose you make a mistake (no, this is not excluded), you put 220V on the sensor, instead of 24V DC, of course it will be destroyed, but for a very short moment, the temperature will be very high, hence a possible hazard.

it is part of the price. 6 meters are included.

6m is more than enough for a Sotralentz 2000L, it's about 2m high. I noticed for the Prignitz, the cable is very special, there is a tiny pipe in the cable. I guess this pipe is used in measuring the pressure difference between the open atmosphere and the bottom of the tank.

do you need it in an gazoil or an fuel tank?
In my case, it is for gasoil (diesel, I think you say Heizöl)

[Warichet]

The pepperle ultrasonic sensor to mount on top of the tank (no problem with EX and fuel) cost 175 € with 4-20mA output. You can connect it with any wire via a plug.

Hé hé
Are you talking about this company ?
Do you have a practical experience ? or a model to recommend ?
I've seen the UB2000-30GM-H3, indeed seems to fit my requirements.
Measuring range is OK, price is OK.
In the specs, I read

transmitter pulse (clock)

does it need a clock ???

Thank you for the tip

[anlo007]

Hallo,
We are using the Siemens Ultrasonic Bero since app 15 years. Years ago you needed an extra unit in the switchboard to convert the signal, but today all the electric is within the sensor.
here the website:

http://www.automation.siemens.com/si...lter_sonar.htm

To set the sensor to the optimum resolution (app. +-1mm) you need a programming box, cable and software once. We have got these box, because we have 15 storage tanks (10.000 to 50.000 ltr) equipped with them and they work perfect, only while filling the tanks we get some misreadings because we fill them with 3" tube through the top and the oil is coming across the sensor.

When you get the sensor, you can either use the standart setting or ask Siemens or someone else to programm your required range. (I could do that for you, if you want)

All you need to run them is a 24V Power supply and you get a 4-20 mA Signal out.

I gave you the adress of the Pepperle because they do not require (or can not be set by) an external unit. So I thought they would be more convineint for you. I do not understand the part with the clock input either.

[Warichet]

We are using the Siemens Ultrasonic Bero since app 15 years.

Indeed, great stuff, thank you for the pointer.
Any idea about the price ? or is it comparable with the solutions listed before ?
In my quest for the ideal sensor, I'm always bumping into the same difficulties:
either it's a cheap thing that doesn't do or is not suited for what I want
or it's an industrial grade sensor with many features (that I don't need) and which is too expensive for the EFH.

When you get the sensor, you can either use the standart setting or ask Siemens or someone else to programm your required range.

I'm a bit scared of this, I prefer to be autonomous, not that I've something against modern technology (quite to the opposite) but I'm living in a place where the slightest technological problem is sometimes not to overcome

(I could do that for you, if you want)

Thank you very much for this kind offer, appreciated

I gave you the adress of the Pepperle because they do not require (or can not be set by) an external unit. So I thought they would be more convineint for you. I do not understand the part with the clock input either.

Nevertheless, this device seems very interesting, also, seems more suited for a EFH. I will ask about the clock, maybe I misunderstand the specs or selected the wrong model.

Thank you for this detailed reply.

[TRex]

alors, warichet,

i asked tecson for your problem. He said, it is in EU an he think, the normal TDS is enough for the Gazoil / Petrol (Diesel oder Heizöl)

The price is 225 € + Tax ( 19% )

If you want it with the EX-Cover the price will be +100€ + Tax

Peter

[Warichet]

Hi Peter,

He said, it is in EU an he think, the normal TDS is enough for the Gazoil / Petrol (Diesel oder Heizöl)
The price is 225 € + Tax ( 19% )
If you want it with the EX-Cover the price will be +100€ + Tax

Thank you for having done this query on my behalf. I suspect your german is better than mine .
So, once we want the EX cover we fall in the same price range as Prignitz .

Would someone be so kind to send mail to info@de.pepperl-fuchs.com
asking for a well suited sensor for a Heizöl tank ?
I made the mistake of asking for the shipping costs to France and hence has been redirected to .... a black hole

I'm looking for a sensor to measure the fuel level in a tank (Heizöl)

I've seen the model UB2000-30GM-H3, but I'm not sure it is the right one, because in the specs I read it needs a clock ???

Can you please recommend a sensor model for fuel level (domestic application, no industrial stuff)
Ideally, the sensor should have a 4-20mA or 0-10V interface. The purpose is to connect to the KNX bus, via an A/D converter.

[TRex]

the pepperl & fuchs UB2000-30GM-H3 is also build for an gazoil tank, the price is rd. 200 €. But you need an special elektronic receiver for the signal.

The other option is an UC2000-30 GM - IU /R2 / v15 this makes an 4-20 mA under 10-30V . The price is rd. 346 € + Tax.

If you want it, please send me an PN, i will buy it and ship it to you.
it is not ex - certified.

I think it is the same like the tescon....

Peter

[anlo007]

Hallo,

I looked up in the conrad catalog, there is a Sensor :
Conrad Nr: 156162-15
Pepperl und Fuchs
UB2000-F42-I-V15 Range 60 - 2000 mm Analoge Output 4 - 20 mA for 174.00 € plus VAT plus Plug

It is a box-type sensor (80x80x34mm), not round, but for the price difference, it is possible to make a round adaptor, if required.

It does not mention a separate switchgear, to be necessary. You can get a display box, if you want, but I assume you do that in the HS.

www.conrad.biz

[Warichet]

I looked up in the conrad catalog, there is a Sensor :
Conrad Nr: 156162-15
Pepperl und Fuchs
UB2000-F42-I-V15 Range 60 - 2000 mm Analoge Output 4 - 20 mA for 174.00 € plus VAT plus Plug

Well, this looks really good.
Given your reference, I looked it up at their site, even found the specs in french . I've to re-read the doc about the calibration process, hoping they don't want an empty tank to start the calibration.

Thank you very much for the tip

PS: This model is not labeled EX
PS: looked at conrad.fr, no track of this device, seems not to be the same company ...