Hello everyone,
The context is a residential application (1 family house). I have built a home automated house in the past, but this is my first KNX project, so my KNX knowledge is limited and theoretical at this point (no practical realization yet).
KNX is clearly well suited to manage lighting with presence detection, OR with scenes (where a series of push buttons turn on and off different lighting configurations), but I would like to combine both: specifically, the decision to turn on and off the lights is controlled by a presence sensor (including light sensor & timer), but the decision of which lights should be on and off is determined by a scene (that is selected with wall mounted push buttons, or on a tablet). I have pasted some real life use cases at the bottom to clarify.The goal is basically to limit user interactions to a minimum, i.e. users only need to indicate a change in desired light configuration (classic scene functionality) but don't need to worry about actually turning lights on and off (classic presence detection functionality).
In a non KNX solution, I would do this with simple logic in a central server, but with KNX, it seems the right design would be a KNX presence sensor that has a notion of scenes (i.e. multiple lighting configurations that can be selected by a telegram), whereby wall mounted push buttons can send a telegram to the presence sensor to tell it which lighting scene to use, and the presense sensor knows which lights to turn on and off (triggered by presence and light level).
I have searched and looked at a lot of presence sensor documentations and can't seem to find presence detectors that would have this capability.
Is it common and I'm just not realizing it is when I read the documentation of these sensors?
Or is my design wrong and this should be realized a different way?
Or is this just not possible?
Thanks a lot in advance for your help!
Eric
REAL LIFE USE CASES
(assume a presence sensor is used, not a motion detector)
LIVING ROOM
- during the early evening (it's dark outside), you enter and leave the living room multiple times - each time, the bright lights turn on when you enter, and turn off after you have left for some time, as you'd expect from a presence controlled light
- after dinner, you are in the living room and you decide to switch to cosy scene by pressing the appropriate button (on the wall or on the tablet) - the bright lights turn off and the cosy lights turn on - exactly what you'd expect from a scene solution
- you leave to go to bed, and the cosy lights turn off ater some time, as you'd expect from a presence sensor
- in the early morning, when you just woke up and enter the living room, the cosy lights turn on
- when you feel more awake and are ready for bright lights, you switch to bright scene by pressing the appropriate button - the bright lights turn on and the cosy lights turn off
BEDROOM
- during the early evening (it's dark outside), you enter and leave the bedroom multiple times - each time, the bright light turns on when you enter, and turns off after you have left for some time, as you'd expect from a presence controlled light
- when you're ready to go to bed, you switch the scene from bright to cosy - the bright lights turn off and the cosy light turn on (or stay on, depending on how the previous scene was configured) - exactly what you'd expect from a scene solution
- when you actually want to sleep, you switch the scene from cosy to night - a scene where all the lights are off (therefore your presence doesn't turn any light on)
- in the morning, when you want to get up, you switch the scene from night to cosy or bright - the corresponding lights turn on
- when you leave your room, after some time, the lights are turned off
The context is a residential application (1 family house). I have built a home automated house in the past, but this is my first KNX project, so my KNX knowledge is limited and theoretical at this point (no practical realization yet).
KNX is clearly well suited to manage lighting with presence detection, OR with scenes (where a series of push buttons turn on and off different lighting configurations), but I would like to combine both: specifically, the decision to turn on and off the lights is controlled by a presence sensor (including light sensor & timer), but the decision of which lights should be on and off is determined by a scene (that is selected with wall mounted push buttons, or on a tablet). I have pasted some real life use cases at the bottom to clarify.The goal is basically to limit user interactions to a minimum, i.e. users only need to indicate a change in desired light configuration (classic scene functionality) but don't need to worry about actually turning lights on and off (classic presence detection functionality).
In a non KNX solution, I would do this with simple logic in a central server, but with KNX, it seems the right design would be a KNX presence sensor that has a notion of scenes (i.e. multiple lighting configurations that can be selected by a telegram), whereby wall mounted push buttons can send a telegram to the presence sensor to tell it which lighting scene to use, and the presense sensor knows which lights to turn on and off (triggered by presence and light level).
I have searched and looked at a lot of presence sensor documentations and can't seem to find presence detectors that would have this capability.
Is it common and I'm just not realizing it is when I read the documentation of these sensors?
Or is my design wrong and this should be realized a different way?
Or is this just not possible?
Thanks a lot in advance for your help!
Eric
REAL LIFE USE CASES
(assume a presence sensor is used, not a motion detector)
LIVING ROOM
- during the early evening (it's dark outside), you enter and leave the living room multiple times - each time, the bright lights turn on when you enter, and turn off after you have left for some time, as you'd expect from a presence controlled light
- after dinner, you are in the living room and you decide to switch to cosy scene by pressing the appropriate button (on the wall or on the tablet) - the bright lights turn off and the cosy lights turn on - exactly what you'd expect from a scene solution
- you leave to go to bed, and the cosy lights turn off ater some time, as you'd expect from a presence sensor
- in the early morning, when you just woke up and enter the living room, the cosy lights turn on
- when you feel more awake and are ready for bright lights, you switch to bright scene by pressing the appropriate button - the bright lights turn on and the cosy lights turn off
BEDROOM
- during the early evening (it's dark outside), you enter and leave the bedroom multiple times - each time, the bright light turns on when you enter, and turns off after you have left for some time, as you'd expect from a presence controlled light
- when you're ready to go to bed, you switch the scene from bright to cosy - the bright lights turn off and the cosy light turn on (or stay on, depending on how the previous scene was configured) - exactly what you'd expect from a scene solution
- when you actually want to sleep, you switch the scene from cosy to night - a scene where all the lights are off (therefore your presence doesn't turn any light on)
- in the morning, when you want to get up, you switch the scene from night to cosy or bright - the corresponding lights turn on
- when you leave your room, after some time, the lights are turned off
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