IRTrans

[Warichet]

Hi,

I've RTFM about IRTrans. I see a lot of usefull details, but imho, what is missing is some application notes. So far, I've still no clue about how to put things in place, so I'll ask here, if you don't mind

I'm busy with a hometheatre project. My first idea was to select only "IP enabled" components. Verrrry bad idea, crazy thing, forget it !
Now I turn to an IRTrans based solution.

Setup:
In the viewing room, there is only a projector.
In the technical room: there are:
- an amplifier,
- a Blu-Ray and
- a sat decoder.
From within the viewing room, I want to control all 4 devices, with a remote controm AND from the HS.

Would someone be so kind to tell me which components go where, how many and what acessories/options are needed to make a working solution?

Most important, I want the HS to be able to mimic the IR codes send by the original remote control devices. This implies learning/knowing the IR codes from each device and how they are encapsulated in Ethernet/IP, so to be able to lauch IR codes from the HS just as if they were issued by an original remote control.

The ultimate goal is to have 1 PB called "HomeCinema" which would trigger a sequence, dimming the lights, pull down the screen, pull down the projector, power-on the ampli (IR) and select the right source (IR), power-on the blu-ray (IR) and play the movie (IR). I've no problem with the KNX part (already working) but would appreciate a little help for the IRTrans set-up.

[TRex]

âlo Warichet,

first you have to see, on which IR-Frequency the Machines are.
Remember, the B&O need another IR then other machines.

IMHO you need 2 IRTrans or one with 2 IR-Diodes extern.

Then you can lern in the IR-Codes from all machines. It is possible to use the IR-Trans as an Transmitter, so you need only one remote-Control for all machines.

The second step ist to make the UDP-Telegrams in the HS.

I Think it is no great problem. If you need an example, please let me know, i'll send you my IRTrans - Database and my hs-Project.
Peter

[makki]

My first idea was to select only "IP enabled" components. Verrrry bad idea, crazy thing, forget it !

Now, that would be the one and only way (if possible) for me to go ahead..
(But: already know some of the flaws, see Denon:23)
My Homecinema is still mostly in boxes and yet outdatet.. another problem with time etc..

But some more details on models/setup please..

IR is IMHO a worst case-last exit! I have some irtrans myself (see above: this world is not perfect)

For detailed help a detailed list of devices would be helpful..
Although I find IR-RC braindead, I do it myself With at least the models with some DB on the IRTrans this could be done quite easily..
This won't work - due to IR - never ever 100% reliable but better than nothing

Makki

[Warichet]

Hi Makki (aka night worker),

that would be the one and only way (if possible) for me to go ahead.

... until you bump into such difficulties that you get sick of it, or you realize that you have to spend almost twice the money to get an approximate solution. Rhâ

During my selection process, I realized that the market is segmented into 2 categories: "HomeCinema" and "Data".
In the "HomeCinema" class, you will of course find "Full HD" devices, but none with IP enabled web management features. Some marketeers "in their immense wisdom" (I've another word for that, but admins will fire me ) think it would be too expensive to include those features in a "low cost", "consumer" class device. This argument is falacious and completely wrong . To make my point, take the example of the Freecom MusicPal, this nice little thing costs 120€ (not 1.200€ hé!) has Linux, a web server and accepts http command. Soooo.....
I know this discussion is pointless and completely useless, no marketeer will ever read it as most of them pertain to the autist club (I know some other in the KNX world ).

In the "Data" class, you will find a huuuge range of devices. At the higher end, you find IP enabled devices, but far from the "Full HD" resolution, unless you climb into the clouds (5.000-7.000€ for a projector, maybe no problem for you, surely is a problem for me ). Also, such a device is in the 5.000-7.000 lumen, by far too much for a Home Cinema (might be OK for a sun bath )
There is an additional catch (in french we have an expression "piège à con", loosely translated as "dummy trap", we are very good at inventing useless things) that is, some device HAVE an RJ45 but only for the firmware update (no web interface, rhâ). So, you have to contact each support desk (and eventually get a reply) to make sure the RJ45 is doing what you expect from it.

IR is IMHO a worst case-last exit! .

I do agree to some extent, but I've no better solution for now .

Imagine the following set-up, in it's final version.
You have a rack with 2-3 AV devices.
Facing the rack, you have an IR transmitter (with 2-3 senders, I guess 1/device) connected to the LAN. The transmitter is in a fixed and tuned position, shooting right in the devices.
In another place, you have the projector. Facing the projector, you have another transmitter which is also in a fixed and tuned position, shooting right in the device.
During the installation process, you have learned the relevant iR codes and encoded them in the HS, all together part of a HS sequence which is triggered by a KNX PB. Isn't that a nice bridge ? What can go wrong ?

I have some irtrans myself (see above: this world is not perfect).

That's not what's written in the IRTrans doc I've read so far , maybe it's obsolete
You might have a look at GlobalCache and their API

For detailed help a detailed list of devices would be helpful..

ûû, sorry, too late, I've discarded this piece of crap. Another member of the forum might still have it, but believe me, it's a piece of crap. You might get far better results in Germany, but you have to re-do the whole process

Also, the selection process is terrible. There are of course some sites with comparaisson tables, comparing pixels, size, lumens, resolution etc. NONE is mentionning the RJ45/Web as a search criteria, hence a rigorous search/select is impossible. The only way I've found is ... Google for projectors brand names, contact each web site, try to find a local agency or a support mail address (it took me 3 weeks and all I got is a list of dead sites, black holes, wrong indirections and invalid mail address, you might be more lucky with a german search ) and send a mail to each, asking about the RJ45 features. All this to get the wrong answer because just by accident you contacted someone in the "HomeCinema" division and of course he has no knowledge of the "Data" division which is 2,5m away from his desk

This won't work - due to IR - never ever 100% reliable but better than nothing

I think you are referring to the scenario with a hand held remote control ?
In which case, I do agree. The doc says you should be shooting in a 30° angle with the IR receiver, û , not always possible.
The above is not/far less true for a fixed installation.

Awaiting your comments.

[domoticom]

received my wifi IRDB IRTrans today, and trying to control TV & DVD from HomeServer

Still working on it, but want to shere this link:

http://www.dacom-homeautomation.de/c..._IRTrans02.pdf

[Warichet]

Hi Mike,

want to shere this link

Thank you, very kind of you

[domoticom]

ok, i've got it working. Very nice, and fast!

You'l need a IRtrans with ethernet or Wifi and integrated database.

Learn the codes, upload them to the IRtrans and send HTML lines to it to let it send IR

for example:
http://192.168.1.107/send.htm?remote=mike&command=power

[Warichet]

ok, i've got it working.

Hé, you got it working in no time
I checked the doc, looks good.

You'l need a IRtrans with ethernet or Wifi and integrated database

I haven't ordered my stuff yet.
What is still not clear for me, is: do I need one transmitter per controlled device ? or can a single transmitter control many devices ?
I understand the IR codes are specific to each devices, but what about the frequency ? I guess it is also specific to each device, hence the question; can a single transmitter send codes at different frequencies ?

Thanks for the feedback

[jef2000]

Hi,

Most devices use frequencies between 30 and 56kHz and can be controlled by the "normal" IRTans. Only a couple of devices use higher frequencies (most famous is B&O). See here for details: IR Trans - Technical Information - Hardware

You can set the IRTrans in front of all your devices in the technical room so that the main IR beam can reach them all. Another solution is to use external IR leds positioned just in front of each device's IR receiver. IRTrans has very powerful IR leds. The one I use is placed next to the TV and DVD player, beaming in direction of the couch, but the reflexion of IR on various objects are strong enough to make it work.

Then you need a second IRTrans in the projection room. The best place is close to the screen, so that it can beam in direction of the projector and receive beam from your remote control.

If the screen is not too far from the technical room, perhaps you can use only one IRTrans close to the screen and put a wire to the technical room with external IR leds.

Be careful to choose the IRTrans devices "with IR database", so that they can autonomously recognize IR codes and send corresponding text commands to HS via ethernet. The model without IR database can only capture "raw" IR sequences and need additional software to recognize them.

Jean-François

[TRex]

raymond,

i think there is only one ir-trans you need. This can make all the commands you need for all "normal" devices.

as written before it is necessary to put the ir-trans in front of your 3 devices then it will work. Don't mind the angle. To be sure for working i would not use a rack with a glass door ( i think the reflection will be a problem ).

My irtrans (PoE) is located with a double sided tape under my nightstand ( not a one night stand ) and it works fine.

p.s. my wife hasn't discovered it yet ;-) She's always wondering who changes the programm

[Warichet]

Hi Jean-François,

See here for details: IR Trans - Technical Information - Hardware

Indeed, a MUST read

You can set the IRTrans in front of all your devices in the technical room so that the main IR beam can reach them all.

OK, fine. I intend to install the IRTrans on the opposite wall (3m away from the receiving devices, I guess this is no problem)

Another solution is to use external IR leds positioned just in front of each device's IR receiver.

Maybe a little bit less elegant (to keep in mind as a fallback alternative, just in case ...)

you need a second IRTrans in the projection room. The best place is close to the screen, so that it can beam in direction of the projector

OK, fine, I understand from your comments above that the 4,5m away is no problem.

and receive beam from your remote control.

OK, this is especially true for the set-up and adjustement phase.
In the final set-up, I don't want to use any remote control (don't know yet if this is realistic). The purpose is to have just 2 PB on the wall, one labelled "Music" and another labelled "Cinema" and have the HS take care of the "sequence" (I mean sequence, not KNX scenario).
The ultimate goal (yes, sounds crazy, but a bit crazy I am, so no problem ), is not to touch any CD/DVD/BD but to have them all ripped and stored on a NAS. and select the "tune of the day" from the Visu.

If the screen is not too far from the technical room, perhaps you can use only one IRTrans close to the screen and put a wire to the technical room with external IR leds.

Hé, hé, that's a good idea, I'll check the specs for any distance limitation

Be careful to choose the IRTrans devices "with IR database", so that they can autonomously recognize IR codes and send corresponding text commands to HS via ethernet. The model without IR database can only capture "raw" IR sequences and need additional software to recognize them.

OK, point taken.
I just got a proposal from IRTrans, which is the same as your recommendation

2 IRTrans Ethernet IRDB Devices
1 Internal learning receiver
2 power supplies

mmmm, I guess I can move the "learning receiver" around ? as I've to "learn" codes in 2 different rooms ? Or do I need 2 of them ?


Merci Jean-François

[Warichet]

i think there is only one ir-trans you need

The devices are in 2 different rooms, so I guess I need 2 IRTrans

i would not use a rack with a glass door ( i think the reflection will be a problem )

Too late I've put the stuff in a 19" rack.
It might not be a reflection problem (if the angle is right) but maybe a filter problem, in case of a "smoked glass" dor, the signal (light attenuation) might be too low.

The PoE is indeed a good idea . Did you notice the price difference ? much more expensive than the standard equivalent + power supply, i.e.
175€ + 12,50€ = 220€ û makes me red

[Warichet]

Hi Mike,

ok, i've got it working.

Seems you are the IRTrans king

I've got 2x IRtrans PoE with integrated database.
So far, I've been able to install the server on a PC, and access the 2 devices to assign a fixed IP, then, to access the internal Web page of the devices.
After reading the doc several times I've still no clue for the rest.

Would you be so kind to list the steps involved ?
I understand I've to learn the codes and store them somehow in the devices, but I've no overview of the process.

Have you already done the HS integration ?
I guess I've first to manually test the stuff before putting it to the HS ?

Thanks in advance

[domoticom]

Hi,

To learn the codes, i connected the device via USB. not sure if it will work via LAN

Then start the USB server from the start menu. This will connect to the device via USB

Then start the GUI client. From this GUI client you can learn new codes and store them in the code-tree. In the code tree you have remotecontrol name and command name
I.e.
remote control name: TV_living
commands: switchOn, switchOff, VolumeUp, etc.

Then you have to write them to flash of the IRdb on the device

Then disconnect USB, and connect LAN.

After that you can send the commands via tcp/ip or html.
html you can test from you laptop webbrowser.

I can't show you screensshots right now, because I have installed the IRtrans @ a project, and can't connect to it.

Hope it helps ;-)

[Warichet]

Hi Mike,

Hope it helps ;-)

It helps a lot.
Thanks lot for taking the time to post the procedure.