- √ - Sending an "All Off" doesn't work for all

[Warichet]

Hi,
I've a bizarre thing that I'd like to submit.

I'm creating a new functionality: "All lamps Off"
I've created a new GA, 0/7/6
I've associated the switching channel from all actuators and dimmers to that GA
When hitting a dedicated PushButton, I send a 0 to 0/7/6
This works for all 34 lamps, except 4
All 4 are on the same actuator, Merten 647829, Schaltaktor 8x230, 1.1.155 KO 4,5,6,7

I've no reason to suspect this actuator:
- looking at the flags, seems OK
- hitting individually the related PB, works fine, On/Off, status OK
- hitting individually the related icon in the Visu, works fine, On/Off, status OK
So, everything works fine, except "All Off". It beats me.
Where should I start my troubleshooting ?
Should I use Group Monitor or Bus Monitor ?
How could I record the events ? I can just see what's on my screen, but it's too late

Thank you

[vento66]

Hi Warichet!


Ist die Zentral Adresse in den Linienkopplern auf "Weiterleiten" eingestellt?
Programmier deine Linienkoppler neu um die Filtertabelle neu zu laden, oder Ändere die GA auf 14/X/X , da diese Adressen immer weitergeleitet werden.

[Warichet]

Hi Micha,

Ist die Zentral Adresse in den Linienkopplern auf "Weiterleiten" eingestellt?

??? Zentral Adresse
I'm not using Zentral Adresse, don't know how to do it

Programmier deine Linienkoppler neu um die Filtertabelle neu zu laden, oder Ändere die GA auf 14/X/X , da diese Adressen immer weitergeleitet werden.

Well, I didn't setup any filtering in the Linienkoppler, so I guess everything should pass throught ? right ?

Is filtering based on GA or PA ?
Anyway, I can't get any clue from the addresses.
The faulty GA are 0/0/101-107 the ones before work, the ones after work
The faulty PA is 1.1.155, here too, the ones before work, the ones after work
BTW: the "faulty" device is on the same side of the bridge, so it should work at that level. Also, note that manual operation works fine

Did I miss something ?

Thank you for the hint.

PS: could it be that the actuator is too slow ? (crazy idea, I know, but..)

[jonofe]

For testing you may try to define a separate GA "All Off" only for this actuator, then try again and find out wether it has something to do with the overall system or only with this actuator. If the problem remains you may try to define 2 GAs, each for four channels and try again. Hopefully this will isolate the problem a little bit.

I had similar problems, but it was the fact, that some channels did not send their status after "all off". I decided not to define a GA for "all off" but to switch all channels off by a logic, so I could define the time offset between 2 telegrams which has direct impact on the bus load genrated by the active status response.

[Warichet]

define a separate GA "All Off" only for this actuator, then try again

Ok. If I've no better idea, I'll do that, but I fear I'll end up with no concrete solution

but it was the fact, that some channels did not send their status after "all off".

This is not exactly the same. In my case, the actuator doesn't switch Off.

I could define the time offset between 2 telegrams which has direct impact on the bus load genrated by the active status response.

I thought about bus load for a while, but then it would be at random. In my case, it is steady the same 4 channels of the same actuator.

Any hint about recording data with the monitor ?

Thank you very much

[GLT]

Zentraladressen kann man über den Eigenschaftsdialog erstellen

Funktionieren die unmittelbaren "Nachbargeräte" z.B. 1.1.154?
Evtl. eine "Schleife" einprogrammiert?
Würd mal die direkt mit dem Aktor kommunizierenden Geräte inspizieren.

Du hast 2 Gruppenadressen 0/7/5 (All Lamps,on) und 0/7/6 (All Lamps, off) - ist nicht nötig, das über 2 GAs zu lösen.

[Warichet]

Hi GLT,

Zentraladressen kann man über den Eigenschaftsdialog erstellen

OK. I checked the properties of working and non-working GA. They are the same.
I don't quite understand your message. Do you mean I should work with central address ? instead of my current solution.
I've read the help about central address, don't understand a word of it

Funktionieren die unmittelbaren "Nachbargeräte" z.B. 1.1.154?
Evtl. eine "Schleife" einprogrammiert?
Würd mal die direkt mit dem Aktor kommunizierenden Geräte inspizieren.

OK. I'll check it.
1.1.154 has 4 KO involved, it works fine.

Schleife = Loop
I don't think I've done this, I've no idea about how to do that but you never know with a dummy

Du hast 2 Gruppenadressen 0/7/5 (All Lamps,on) und 0/7/6 (All Lamps, off) - ist nicht nötig, das über 2 GAs zu lösen.

Yep, you are right, I'll correct it.

Is it possible that the actuator is too slow ?

Thank you for the hints, very kind of you.

[GLT]

I've read the help about central address, don't understand a word of it

Zentraladressen (also, wenn Häckchen gesetzt) sorgt dafür, daß in allen Filtertabellen (Linienkoppler) diese Adresse eingetragen (und somit durchgelassen) wird, falls Linienkoppler auf filtern gesetzt sind - normalerweise wird das nicht benötigt, da die Filter automatisch aktualisiert werden, wenn eine "übergreifende" Verknüpfung erstellt wird. Falls jedoch Geräte, die nicht mittels ETS in Betrieb genommen (z.B. Visualisierungen, Tableus, GLTs), eingesetzt werden, versagt die auto. Berechnung (außer man setzt Dummy-Applikationen ein) - da hilft dieses Häckchen weiter ;-)

Ist im Linienkoppler "weiterleiten" oder "nicht filtern" aktiviert, spielt dies keine Rolle, da die Koppler dann alles durchlassen.

[aggie89go]

Have you used "Geräteinfo" in the ETS to check, that the address is really showing up for this actor?

[Warichet]

Zentraladressen (also, wenn Häckchen gesetzt) sorgt dafür, daß in allen Filtertabellen (Linienkoppler) diese Adresse eingetragen (und somit durchgelassen) wird, falls Linienkoppler auf filtern gesetzt sind.

Ist im Linienkoppler "weiterleiten" oder "nicht filtern" aktiviert, spielt dies keine Rolle, da die Koppler dann alles durchlassen.

OK, thank you for the lesson

I think I got it.
I was looking like mad in the ETS, but I finally checked in the Experte.
Guess what ?
I've defined 4 Watch Address ! Rhââ

The actuator doesn't have "real" feed-back status for every channel, so I've simulated it with the Watch Address

This crummy thing is a very very bad idea.

I'll test to morrow, I'm convinced, but still don't understand why single commands do work, and an All Off doesn't. It beats me

[GLT]

BTW - verwendest Du die aktuellste Produktdatenbank für diesen Aktor?

Hast Du den Aktor "Partiell programmiert" oder die Applikation übertragen?

Ansonsten könntest Du mal den Aktor komplett laden.

[Warichet]

Have you used "Geräteinfo" in the ETS to check, that the address is really showing up for this actor?

Yes, as far as I can see, everything seems OK

BTW - verwendest Du die aktuellste Produktdatenbank für diesen Aktor?

The actuator is rather old, I don't think there is a newer version, but OK, I'll check to make sure.

Hast Du den Aktor "Partiell programmiert" oder die Applikation übertragen?
Ansonsten könntest Du mal den Aktor komplett laden.

Knowing that it has to do with Watch Address, I don't investigate this for the moment.

Now, to the core.

Removing the 4 Watch Address has indeed solved the problem.
So, imho, the problem is HomeServer related (not ETS, nor actuator, nor topology, nor network, filtering etc, just HS!)
But my Visu is KAPUT , rhâ, indeed it was based on the 4 "status" GA simulated by the Watch Address.
I must admit I don't understand anything about this problem, nihil, zero !

Maybe with "a little help from my friends" ?

1) did I make a mistake (if yes: what, where ?)
2) is it just "strange behaviour" ?
3) is it a bug ? (if yes, it can be reproduced anywhere, anytime)
4) @GLT, you were suggesting a loop ! is this considered as a loop ? If yes, I'm a professional loopmaker now
NB: I've always had problems with the watch address, this thing is ill fated stuff. But I think they were set-up correctly, as per the doc, anyway, they were working till now, soooo, there are reasons to believe it was OK
Thank you for your time and trouble

[GLT]

Ist der Status reine Anzeige oder hast Du in deiner Visu den "Status" dazu benutzt, daß

WENN Status<>Befehl -> sende Befehl

als Funktion bei rauskommt?

[Warichet]

Ist der Status reine Anzeige

Yes

hast Du in deiner Visu den "Status" dazu benutzt, daß

WENN Status<>Befehl -> sende Befehl

als Funktion bei rauskommt?

No, don't know how to do that

Yet an aside question.
How can I mimic the set-up I had before ? (without the Watch Address, of course)
My architecture was build like this:
GA1 for the switch of a binary actuator, i.e. 0/0/101
GA2 for the status of a binary actuator, i.e. 0/0/102
The Merten 647829 does only provide a status feed-back on the FIRST channel (not on all others ).
That's why I thought it was a good idea to use the Watch Address, to compensate for the lack of "real" status, but still keep my architecture consistent.
So far, I've found no way to mimic my previous set-up. I tried to populate 0/0/102 (the status GA) with several combinations of flags, no way!

The only way I can think of, is to use the switching channel of the
actuator to feed the Visu and the status of the Push-buttons LED

Soooo, my nice architecture goes in the wastebasket or should I throw the 647829 on eBay and buy another one to keep my own rules consistent ?

PS: any idea if my problem is my mistake or a bug ?

[vento66]

Hi Warrichet!

Nimm die GA vom Schalter und zeige die GA in der Visu an. Eventuell mit einem oder-baustein.

GA / Schalter 1 oder GA Schalter 2 = IKO Zustand Licht