experte has stopped working

[Warichet]

After one week of trial and error, I'm up to the no return point.
I think I made a mistake, changing the IP and upgrade at the same time.

As a last resort:
would someone be so kind to provide me with an old "kit", i.e. Experte 2.8, ad-hoc firmware and a compatible demo project.

[EIBJ]

You can still download the "old" stuff from Gira Web Page https://www.gira.de/service/download...d.html?id=1815
But if you ask for a "compatibel" demo project, this means you would start from scratch ! Right? Then I would start with actual Sofware. You can also easily bring back the last working set. The only thing you need is a working expert. Didn't you have 4.3 successfully installed ?

For your info:
- Each experte comes with the according firmware (just check the folderstructure, look for "firmware". You can upload the firmware with RS232 to the HS, regardless of Version and with no network at all :-)
- You need a errorfree project in whatever experte you want in order to upload these project successfully to HS
With these 2 requirements, it is possible to bring the HS back to live :-)
Good Luck

[MatthiasS]

Thats true. There is no point of no return with Homeserver 2.

You can always return, but you never have to. Going to an return point is aexactly the same thing as going to the actual firmware. I have several Hs2 working with 4.4.

In combination with big projects it can be necessary to make an upgrade to RAM and Flash in order to use all of its possibilities.

[Warichet]

@EIBJ

> You can still download the "old" stuff from Gira Web Page
OK, thanks

> you ask for a "compatibel" demo project, this means you would start from scratch ! Right?
Yes & no, I thought about one of the "Muster" project, something as small as possible, just to reach out of the mess. I'm pretty sure that if I can ping the HS, all the other stuff will work


> You can also easily bring back the last working set.
I've had some error messages, and forgot about it.

> Didn't you have 4.3 successfully installed ?
No, the last one is 4.1

> Each experte comes with the according firmware (just check the folderstructure, look for "firmware".
OK, I've done a couple of updates over these last 8-9 years, never has such a problem.

> You can upload the firmware with RS232 to the HS, regardless of Version and with no network at all :-)
I've heard this before, but I suppose you start from a known working system, i.e. via Ethernet, not sure someone took the pain and trouble to test the RS232 alternative.
This brings another question, for my personal curiosity:
What exactly is inside the "firmware" (coming from the hardware world, I've another meaning) I guess it is Linux, but without the IP.

> You need a errorfree project in whatever experte you want in order to upload these project successfully to HS
GREAT !


@MatthiasS
> There is no point of no return with Homeserver 2.
That's a clear statement :-) restores some hope...

> I have several Hs2 working with 4.4.
OK, but maybe you did each updates duly on time, and via Ethernet, hence having different result

> In combination with big projects it can be necessary to make an upgrade to RAM and Flash in order to use all of its possibilities.
I don't have a "Big" project, besides the xxAPI (I love this thing) there is nothing special.
I did the hadware upgrade almost 2 years ago, worked first time without a glitch, even survived the many power-cut, merci EDF :-(

A suggestion about a Muster project ? the most dumb thing available, that even I can't miss it ;-)

Thanks

[MatthiasS]

Sometimes I do upgrades from 2.2 to 4.4 via serial in one step.

But serial update is tricky. You need a null modem cable that has all wires connected (not only RX, TX, GND) and for the best results you need a computer with a native RS-232 port.

If you do not have success at all- just send it to me :-)

[EIBJ]

As Matthias said, you can directly upgrade to any version via RS232
You said you have a working set with Experte 4.1. Then I suggest the following:

- get the RS232 Kabel (comes with HS2 :-) and connect HS to your PC
- Goto "C:\Program Files\Gira\HS+FS\HS+FS Experte 4.1\firmware"
- Start Program "fwupdate.exe", select your COM Port and select "C:\Program Files\Gira\HS+FS\HS+FS Experte 4.1\firmware\hs2_hs3_fs3\firmware.dat" file for upload.
- Press "Start" and when reboot your HS ==> Firmware will upload via RS232.
Next
- Run Experte 4.1 check your project. must be errror free. You can adapt your IP Adress in this project to the one you need
- Upload Project (Übertragen). But select "über serielle Schnittstelle" instead of "über netzwerk". Press "Start" and then reboot HS ==> Project will upload via RS232

Reboot HS and it should start with your project and new IP Adress ! Have Fun

Once done, you can then restart your Upgrade to 4.4 again, or leave it at it is :-)
Have Fun

[Warichet]

Hi,

After a very long absence, I'm back again.(my problem also ;-( )
I think I've done the above recommendations correctly, still one problem remains: the many "Interne Kommunikationsobjekte können nicht ....."
I've attached 5 pictures about the case.
I still have no clue as how to "remove" an iKO
I guess replacing all iKO by std KO is not the best alternative.

Thanks for any hint

[bramlangen]

Raymond, as mentioned earlier in this thread you will need to see where your logic is requesting the status of IKOs. Navigate to an IKO which is listed in your error list. Right-click that IKO and select 'verweise'. You should get a listing in that same 'Meldungen' screen showing where that IKO has been used. Look for entries where that IKO is used in the GLE as an output box with a text like 'Abfragen....', see attachment. Those 'Abfragen' commands need to be removed. One you have done that, you can do a project check. The errors for that IKO should now be gone.
Bram
temp.jpg

[Warichet]

Hi,
> Navigate to an IKO which is listed in your error list. Right-click that IKO and select 'verweise'. You should get a listing

Well, there is something wrong, I'm unable to get a listing.
So, I'm starting from the Experte main page
Prüfen
On the bottom of the screen, I see the error messages (21), i.e.
Cuve fioul 7 errors
Puit 6 errors
etc
right clic -> nothing
double clic -> Visu page
and then ? I've no pointer to the next step, no "verweise"
the only thing I can do is to click on every object, trying to find an iKO
So, I'm fishing for an iKO
find 100/7/42 "puit valeur réelle"
In the GLE page, I find the iKO as the last item of the chain
what should I do now ?
I still fail to understand what to do.
A iKO/KO is needed anyway to have access to the object via a label
I guess I've to make a difference between
- iKO in the middle of a long calculation and an
- iKO end of chain
I'd like to know what to do in each case. I guess this problem has been covered before, but I miss the right keywords for the search

Thanks

[bramlangen]

The right-click is in the section 'Communication Objects', see attachment. Find your iKO 'Cuve Fioul' or 'Puit', right-click the iKO, the bottom entry of the pop-up menu is 'references' ('Verweise'). Click that, a listing will pop up. Go back to the home page, that same listing will be there. Expand the columns if necessary to be able to read the full description. You will then see a listing as included in post #23. As the error is that you are trying to read the iKO, find that line in the listing, double-click it, and determine what the purpose of that line of logic is.

Bram

[Warichet]

Hi,

In the mean time I managed to get the iKOs right, but I guess it's just by accident ;-) your procedure is much more precise and faster.
Thank you.
By now, all error messages about "Interne Kommunikationsobjeckte" are gone.
I've succesfully transferred the FW 4.4 and the project via RS232, no error, but I've no communication with the HS, a ping gets no reply.
On the HS console, I see the correct version for the FW and the correct IP address.
I must admit I've had a "brilliant" idea, upgrading the version and changing the IP at the same time. Lesson learned.

Thank you for your kind help.

[Warichet]

Hello,

Can someone help me to remove an iKO (without re-writing the whole stuff ? )
I've read and re-read the posts, but still no clue.

I've attached a couple of screenshots which I think are relevant.

Thank you

[bramlangen]

Raymond,
You are requesting the status of internal objects in your visualization using commands. There should be no need for that - these are internal KOs, so the HS already knows the status. Remove those commands and you should be good. One of your attachments in post #27 shows 13 instances of those commands. Double-click on each of those 'Meldungen' entries to get you to the relevant visualization page, then find the command and remove it. Your visu should work fine (show the right status) without those commands.
Bram
PS: from post #26 I gathered you had removed all of them already...

[Warichet]

Hi Bram,

Thank you for your patience ... ;-)

> You are requesting the status of internal objects in your visualization using commands.
> There should be no need for that - these are internal KOs, so the HS already knows the status.
> Remove those commands and you should be good.
Yeh, I've been told 10 times, still fail to get it right :-(

Let's start again

Click on "Prüfen"
-> get a list of faulty pages
Select the first 'Meldungen' "Puit hauteur réelle"
Double-click on it
-> get a 'Kommunikationobjekte' page (not a Visu page), about iKO 100/7/42

Mmmm, a couple of days later... I realize I've to double click on a RED 'Meldungen' not a yellow one
-> get a Visu page :-) "Informations"
-> check the dwell icon, the icon label opens the Befehle tab, indeed points to a 'Abfrage'
You said "Remove those commands" OK, but how the heck can the HS know what to display there ?
There is no link anymore to a KO.
There are 3 tabs about the Visu element
Text
Befehle
Benutzergrupe
Should I really remove the Befehle command line ?

> Your visu should work fine (show the right status) without those commands.
Before I edit all those command, I want to make sure I'm on track.

> from post #26 I gathered you had removed all of them already...
No, in a desperate attempt, I translated the iKO to KO (umwandeln)... and screwed up the whole thing (I'm very good at that)

Thanks again

[bramlangen]

OK, but how the heck can the HS know what to display there ? There is no link anymore to a KO. [...]
Should I really remove the Befehle command line ?

Raymond, I am not sure if I fully understand how you have configured your visu pages. If you have a page with elements, then each element has the three tabs that you mention. The 'Befehle' tab is only needed if you want some action to be taken if the element is touched. My guess is you just want something to display, either a dynamic symbol or a dynamic text.
Look at the example in the attachment. The link to the KO is in the 'Symbol control' line of the first tab. In the example, the symbol is controlled by a feedback KO. The status of that KO does not need to be requested when the page opens (I know this is an external KO, the principle is the same for an iKO though - the HS already knows the status *). The symbol displays properly, without the need for any 'Befehle' - this is automatically handled by the HS.

*) It is assumed that the HS is properly configured, and that the state of a KO is properly initialized at reboot time. Otherwise the HS will have to wait for the KO to change state during normal operation.

Modify this for the 13 error entries you listed in your screenshot, and verify for yourself that the visu page indeed displays properly.

Bram