Measuring fuel level

[anlo007]

The doc says "Öl" I guess it means "diesel" "fuel" ?
The nice thing, this Koaxialrohre will fit in any tank (no problem for narrow tank )

Any means to get an idea of the price ? In my case, with Koaxialrohre, 1,6m

Öl is diesel or fuel

If you found the type in the leaflet, you can search the price on the internet page, I have given you first.

I liked the way with the koaxial tubes, because there should be no interfrence with narrow tanks or while filling the tank.

[Warichet]

Some news about ultra-sonic sensors
HRLV‑MaxSonar‑EZ
Looks fine, waiting for more detailed specs.

[anlo007]

Sorry but the link doesnt work.

[Warichet]

Sorry but the link doesnt work.

Sorry, my mistake
Their site is Maxbotix www.maxbotix.com
Their email is marketing@maxbotix.com
The HRLV‑MaxSonar‑EZ link is Indoor High-Resolution Ultrasonic Rangefinders from MaxBotix Inc.
The MB1043 MB1043 HRLV-MaxSonar-EZ4 Ultrasonic Rangefinder might be the device I was waiting for since a long time, for a narrow fuel tank. My previous attempt with a similar device was a failure (beam too wide, reaching the side wall before reaching the bottom)
My ABB AE/A was configured for current loop, I've still to check if it fits with a voltage level, as specified in the specs

[Warichet]

Request for help about ABB AE/A 2.1

Hello,

I'm putting a Maxbotix sensor to work.
I need some guidance to correctly configure the AE/A 2.1. ABB's Tech Sup declinded to help
Given is the following information.
The AE/A is connected to an ultrasonic sensor, connected to a +5VDC supply, with an analog output 0-5V
The sensor is from MaxBotix, model LV-MaxSonar-EZ4, ref. MB1040, MaxBotix Ultrasonic Sensors, High Performance Distance & Proximity Sensors
range from 6-inches out to 254-inches (6,45-meters) with 1-inch resolution.
The application is to measure the fuel level in a tank, the sensor is placed at 1,72m from the bottom.
The sensor scale factor: Vcc/512 = mV/inch, i.e.
5/512 = 9,765625 = 9,77mV/"
1,72m = 67,7" = 661,2mV max output voltage, hence we can select the range 0-1V in the setup of the AE/A
Configuration of the AE/A 2.1 in ETS:
•A General
•Sensor type: Current/Voltage/Resistance
•Sensor output: 0-1V (soit 102,4" = 2,60m = 1V)
•Lower limit: 0
•Output value: 0
•Upper limit: 26 (1,72/2,60 = 66%) 67,7/102,4 = 66%)
•Output value: 172
•Factor: 0,01
•A Treshold value 1: lower 20, upper 30
•A Treshold value 2: lower 132, upper 142
Is this the correct configuration ?
So far, I've configured a treshold to generate an alert when the fuel level reaches low
How should I handle the sensor's dead zone, i.e. 0-6inch = 6 inch ?

Thank you for your comments

[Claus.Mallorca]

Maxbotix Sensor

Hello,

I'm putting a Maxbotix sensor to work.
........................

Thank you for your comments

Hello Warichet,

as far as I found out the sensor's price is about €34.- How is your first impression of the sensor? What do you say about the quality?
I like the price!

Regards from Spain

Claus

[Claus.Mallorca]

other type

at Amazon I found another sensor with a range of 2 cm- 4 m !! For only ~€18.-
4-20mA Current Loop Ultraschall-Entfernungsmesser: Amazon.de: Elektronik
It has an output of 4-20mA
dimensions: 43mm x 20mm

Regards Claus

[Warichet]

as far as I found out the sensor's price is about €34

Yes, Maxbotix is sold in Europe now

- How is your first impression of the sensor? What do you say about the quality?

Well, the first impression is fine, although I'm still testing the sensor, not yet into production, so I'll wait before I make a definite comment. I was surprised by the size, the sensor is really small.

The quality is fine, but, after contacting TechSup for another issue, I learned that the model MB1040 is not recommended for fuel. I didn't see the info in the data sheet :-( A bit frustrating to get the info when it's too late.

About accuracy, the specs say +/- 1 inch, my measurements, although not scientific, show a bit more then 1 inch, but it's fine for my application. The main benefit is the very narrow beam, needed in my case (narrow tank).

Also, the supply is 5VDC, a bit anoying, I had to build a DC converter (7805). Current loop is more simple.

[Warichet]

Hi Claus,

at Amazon I found another sensor with a range of 2 cm- 4 m !! For only ~€18.-

Have you gone forward with your investigation ?
any comments to share ?

[Warichet]

Hi Claus,

How is your first impression of the sensor? What do you say about the quality?

I've spend some time adjusting and calibrating the MB1040 together with a ABB AE/A 2.1
I've done the tests in an office environment, simulating exactly the fuel tank.
I've been piling up/removing carton boxes to simulate different fuel levels.
My conclusions are:
the device is quite reliable and accurate, although I observed measured values slightly outside the specs, but no problem for my application.

I've put the device into production, and got a very bad surprise
the sensor says: 0,40m
measured: 0,49m

This is NOT a setup problem as it worked perfectly well in an office environment. To me, it looks like the sonar beam is detecting the fuel level too soon, hence it is inapropriate for my application.

According to TechSup

Other reasons that may cause target inaccuracy is in the LV-MaxSonar-EZ sensors are: Temperature Compensation, Target Size Compensation, or the Sensor calibration itself.

So, those low cost sensor don't compensate for target size, this might be the problem. Awaiting a recommendation to buy another device.
Grmbl

[makki]

Hmm, very unsatifying, though I'm still in the same "trap" still - first I chose the expensive one and failed..
I have some tests running but please don't expect results within the next 12 months - US looks very promising, but I'll never recommend anything again that hasn't worked at least 6 months here

Makki

[anlo007]

I've put the device into production, and got a very bad surprise
the sensor says: 0,40m
measured: 0,49m

The difference can be caused by the different speed of sound in different athmosphere. You checked it out in plain air, but above the fuel level, you have another athmosphere with a slightly different speed of sound.

If you compensate the result by the factor 1,225 (0,49/0,4=1,225) the results for other hights might be right again.

[Warichet]

Hi,

The difference can be caused by the different speed of sound in different athmosphere. You checked it out in plain air, but above the fuel level, you have another athmosphere with a slightly different speed of sound.

Indeed, that's what I've been told by TechSup, but a difference of 20% on a length of 49cm, isn't that a bit much ?

If you compensate the result by the factor 1,225 (0,49/0,4=1,225) the results for other hights might be right again.

I thought about it for a while, but your suggestion implies the deviation is linear, I mean, a steady percentage, independent of the length.

Implementing the trick is no problem, as I use the HS already to calculate the fuel height (the sensor measures only the air above the fioul, not the fuel height).

Thank you for your comments.

[anlo007]

Hi,

thinking about it, you must measure the highest position and the lowest and set them as the limits in your analoge input. Then you should get better results.

The difference can be quite substantial, in 20°C Air, the speed is 343 m/sec, in Helium 970m/sec,
in oil(liquid) 1340m/sec.
Oil-Dust is not listed.

[ur63]

Another measurement principle (hydrostatic pressure), hence another sensor.. However, cost probably not favourable but robust.

Pegelsonden - TECSON