How to get rid of KNX and/or Gira

[Pygmalion]

So I assume that your problems and especially the situation that you need a service twice a year because something got stuck are not the result of the HS but the result of a bad implementation! So if you change the server hardware to another system you might have the same issues if the installation is not reviewed and corrected completely.

I realise that changing KNX provider may be more important than changing Gira. But in a small country like Croatia, there seems to be only one company working with Gira hardware, so a change of KNX provider necessarily means a change of Gira.

I am aware of KNX interoperability, I am only concerned about the alleged software in HomeServer that controls the convector.

Of course, I would be perfectly fine if everything could be done manually. I am just fed up with my Gira/KNX and all the expensive problems associated with it.

[Pygmalion]

By the way, I am not making any of this up and I am not the only one having problems. Imagine, yesterday they visited my apartment and just today there was already another intervention in a block of about 50 apartments. And there have been so many interventions on the shared KNX system over the last few years that we have been forced to take out a permanent maintenance contract to save costs.

I just wish they had not installed any of this KNX stuff in the first place.

[Hightech]

As already mentioned: It is neither a problem of knx nor a problem of GIRA, it is a problem of your (and your neighbours) implementation!

I have one project at a friend which I installed (only programming not physical installation was my job) in 2012 with a Homeserver 3. It is running now without intervention for years. I think the last time I was there was in 2015. And at that time I only changed things due to changed requirements not because of problems.

So a "normal" (not extended with many objects outside of KNX like media components, Alexa integration and so on) KNX installation should run for years without any interaction.

You should take the offer of ets3-user to have someone outside of your service company looking at your installation and to give you first hints why you have so many problems!

[mst89]

Do you have any KNX Wall switches for Controlling your home (lights, heating, cooling, ...) or do you only have any Central Control Panel (iPad or other Tablets) and Smartphone Apps? Even if you haven't any wall switches you can also switch to any other Server Solution to get your home visualized and be able to control it

[bkr]

I realise that changing KNX provider may be more important than changing Gira. But in a small country like Croatia, there seems to be only one company working with Gira hardware, so a change of KNX provider necessarily means a change of Gira.

A Good Service Provider Works independently from any manufacturers. You can have a KNX Installation in which sensors and actuators of 100 different manufacturers are mixed. ets3-user is such a guy who can perfectly choose the best components for each task from different manufacturers and it still works like a charm.
Please accept bis offer. And Please Post a few photos of your Installation and maybe also one of your convector.

[Pygmalion]

Thank you very much for your replies.

I have requested the project files / contents of the ETS folder. No response so far. Two questions remain:

1. do the project files / ETS folder contain the program in Gira Homeserver, which supposedly controls the convector?

2. what if the KNX supplier refuses to give me the files / folder contents? Are there other ways to get the necessary information?

If I understand correctly, I cannot proceed with solving the problem until I have all the necessary information.

With kind regards

[GKap]

1. do the project files / ETS folder contain the program in Gira Homeserver, which supposedly controls the convector?

No, you need 2 project files:
- the ETS-project and
- the project for the "Experte", which is the commissioning-tool for the Gira-Homeserver.

2. what if the KNX supplier refuses to give me the files / folder contents? Are there other ways to get the necessary information?

- There is a way to reconstruct the ETS-project, but it requires extra software and it misses all textual descriptions. So in many cases programming from scratch is the more efficient way.
- There is no way to reconstruct the Homeserver-project.

Sorry, that I have no better information for you!

But as others already wrote here: KNX is a good an stable system, Gira components are not better nor worse than components from other manufacturers! It depends from the planning (selecting suitable components for the requirements, creating a correct topology, and so on...) and programming, whether the system runs as intended! And also the Gira Homeserver is a good and stable product, which can run for years without intervention!

Regards
GKap

[GKap]

When I bought a new apartment about 10 years ago

This means you have probably a KNX-system with one line and less than 64 components. In this case I would not think to reconstruct the KNX-project, it could be programmed new in a reasonable time.
It not possible to estimate an effort for re-programming the Homeserver, you shoud explain which features are implemented into the Homeserver!

Regards
GKap

[gbglace]

This means you have probably a KNX-system with one line and less than 64 components.

Why no one should have been able to install a line coupler ten years ago?

[GKap]

Of course line couplers were available the years before, but my assumption was, that an appartment does not need so much components, so one line might be sufficient!
But I don't know the size of Pygmalion's appartment...

Regards
GKap

[Pygmalion]

No, you need 2 project files:
- the ETS-project and
- the project for the "Experte", which is the commissioning-tool for the Gira-Homeserver.

Please, as I do not understand all this, would you confirm that the following text is OK:

Please send me KXN project files (ETS folder) and Gira Expert project files for my apartment.

My request must be 100% clear otherwise they will intentionally not give me everything (if they send me anything at all).

But as others already wrote here: KNX is a good an stable system, Gira components are not better nor worse than components from other manufacturers! It depends from the planning (selecting suitable components for the requirements, creating a correct topology, and so on...) and programming, whether the system runs as intended! And also the Gira Homeserver is a good and stable product, which can run for years without intervention!

Maybe other manufacturers have cheaper homeservers, so at least I do not have to pay several thousand EUR every few years?

I do not know anything about their products, but the Gira Germany customer support is one of the lousiest I know. Their distributors in Slovenia were much more helpful, although they have nothing to do with my system. Of course, the distributors in Croatia, who are responsible for my system, were the least helpful of all.

[Pygmalion]

Of course line couplers were available the years before, but my assumption was, that an appartment does not need so much components, so one line might be sufficient!
But I don't know the size of Pygmalion's appartment...

Regards
GKap

It is a two-room apartment, two controls for shades, about half a dozen controls for lights, audio system (completely superfluous, never even tried), wall panel and unknown number of controls for heating/cooling.

Actually I even have a floor plan for "smart home", but it is pretty useless.

By the way, in the kitchen there is "bus coupling unit" 5WG1 110-2CB03, which use I never figured out and always ignored it.

[henfri]

Hello,

Pygmalion your frustration is understandable.
I do not think that it is reasonable to get rid of Gira components. What I recommend to you (and everybody):
Ensure that everything that is essential runs without Homeserver (or any other Server). This is absolutely possible (and in fact the original Design) of KNX.
This increases the reliability, as you have a decentralized System with only very few single point of failures (remaining: Short circuit of the KNX wires, Power supply failure).
Also, the KNX components are fairly simple, which makes them dead-reliable.

Homeserver - and any other Server - is more complex and thus more prone to failure - so you do not want to rely on it.

So, that's step one.

Step two could be to familiarize yourself with HomeServer - after all it is a good and reliable system and you have indicated that you are interested to "do it yourself".

For Step one, you tell us, what is today only possible to be controlled by the Visualization of your Homeserver. That will give us a clue of what is set up there. Furthermore, you could think of what failed to work, when your Homeserver was inoparable. That should give us a complete list and we can make suggestions of how to control that without the Homeserver. In the future scenario it would still be possible to control via Homeserver - but that is only an add-on.
E.g. the scheduled switching on/off of your outside light would be controlled by Homeserver. The manual control is possible with your physical switch.

Another single point of failure that you should get rid of is your service provider. A good service provider is not only able to work with one Brand (even in one project), but for all. The interoperability of Brands is also a key-features of KNX. Except for Hardware related topics, you should also be able to get remote support (at least after a first "presence" appointment for the company to get familiar to your Installation).


In a nutshell: No reason to get rid of Gira.

By the way: I have no single Gira-Component. I am not a Fanboy ;-)

Greetings,
Hendrik

[GKap]

Please, as I do not understand all this, would you confirm that the following text is OK:
Please send me KXN project files (ETS folder) and Gira Expert project files for my apartment.

I would write it in this way: "Please send me the KNX project for the ETS and the Gira Homeserver project for the 'Expert'."

Maybe other manufacturers have cheaper homeservers, so at least I do not have to pay several thousand EUR every few years?

Other manufactures have other logic engines and other visu-servers with very different concepts how to program. You never can use the project for one manufacture in a product from another manufacturer, changing the manufacturer of a server needs always a complete new programming!

In my opininon it should be first clarified why the Homeservers were damaged! Or: are they really damaged or was only the project corrupt? Or is there a problem with the connection to the LAN or to KNX? Do you have bad power with overvoltage or voltage spikes? Do you have a surge protection installed in your power distribution? Power outage usually does not lead to a damage! If a Homeserver dies also behind an UPS, the power supply is probably not the reason!

I do not know anything about their products, but the Gira Germany customer support is one of the lousiest I know.

I have different experience! If I write an email to the Gira support or call it by phone I always get answers - they can't always solve the problem, but at least they try! I don't know the situation in Croatia, but here in Austria as a system integrator I have a contact person from Gira which also can support.

It is a two-room apartment, two controls for shades, about half a dozen controls for lights, audio system (completely superfluous, never even tried), wall panel and unknown number of controls for heating/cooling.

That does not seem to be a big installation! Are you sure that audio and heating is controlled by KNX and Homeserver? I can be done in this way, but there are also other possibilities!

By the way, in the kitchen there is "bus coupling unit" 5WG1 110-2CB03, which use I never figured out and always ignored it.

If you can see this component then the Buttons are missing!

Can you send some pictures from the installed components and from the power diestribution? It would be helpful to get an impression what you have!

Regards
GKap

Btw: I do not work for Gira, it is for me one manufacturer among many others! I own a Gira Homeserver, which worked for more than 10 years without problems, I replaced it only to get the new version 4!

[gbglace]

I don't know the situation in Croatia, but here in Austria as a system integrator I have a contact person from Gira which also can support.

Thats the understanding of gira, they don't know private enduser as their direct customer so they don't give them support.