KNX/EIB KNX Alarm - What do I need?

[tellblom]

I have search the forum but my german is to bad to understand it all so I create a new topic.

What do I need to incorporate a good alarm system into the KNX bus?

I have seen that there is a lot of motion sensors, but they seem to be used to turn on a light when someone comes into range.

Has anyone a example of products and how to put them together to get a working alarmsystem with motion sensors, door sensors (love to be able to check if a door is looked or not( I have seen this on 1 wire networks)), code panels and so on

/Martin

[kippi]

Hello Martin, if you have an Gira Homeserver 3 you can also use the "Präsenzmelder" for building an Alarmsystem via Email and Calling.

It´s not an VDS proofed Concept, but it works fine.

[Voltus]

Hi Martin,

i use this one at home:

http://www.voltus.de/schalterprogram...n-knx-eib.html

Telenot has a Alarm System with KNX Gateway:

http://onlineshop.telenot.de/telenot...itemId=1308020

[Warichet]

Telenot has a Alarm System with KNX Gateway:

http://onlineshop.telenot.de/telenot...itemId=1308020

Looks fine. Any practical experience with this device ? especially the KNX interface. The product description is a bit short.

[Voltus]

I got information about this from a Merten sales employee yesterday. He made his diploma and wrote about this alarm system and the KNX connection.
He said it would be the best solution for the new Voltus building.

I will ask him to write something here.

[Voltus]

Here is some information from him in German:


grundsätzlich kann man hierzu sagen, es ist eine professionelle und VDS zugelassene Alarmanlage (Complex400) mit sämtlichen Funktionen (Einbruchmelde, Feuermelde, Zutrittskontrolle usw.) und jede Menge Erweiterungsmöglichkeiten. Alle Sensoren der EMZ sind auch VDS zugelassen und haben im Grunde nichts mit KNX zu tun. Die Schnittstelle verbindet Bidirektional alle Signale der EMZ mit dem KNX-Bus

Mit dem Interface EIB400 hat man die Möglichkeit alle Meldegruppen, alle Zustände der Einbruchsmeldezentrale, kurz EMZ, abzurufen und auch zu steuern.

Beispiel:

1. Beim Öffnen eines Fensters registriert dies der Reedkontakt und meldet ein offenes Fenster an die EMZ.
a. Im Unscharf-Zustand wird nur die Heizung auf Stand-By geregelt und auf einem Panel / Smart-Phone wird dies angezeigt.
b. Im Scharf-Zustand wird der Alarm ausgelöst, alle Rollläden fahren hoch, alle Leuchten im Haus werden angeschaltet

2. Scharf/Unscharf-Schalten der EMZ mit Smart-Phone

3. Visualisierung des Hauszustandes sehr genau realisierbar.

4. Beim Scharf- / Unscharf-Schalten der EMZ mittels der EMZ-eigenen Scharfschalteinrichtung ("Comlock") wird die Anwesend-/Abwesend-Szene aktiviert und ggf. eine Welcome-Home-Szene abgefahren.

usw...

Programmierung läuft mittlerweile über eine Applikation in ETS, vor dieser Applikation hat das Interface auf festgelegte Gruppenadressen die Status-Informationen der Gruppen gesendet.

[Warichet]

Here is some information from him in German

Thank you for posting it

Alle Sensoren der EMZ sind auch VDS zugelassen und haben im Grunde nichts mit KNX zu tun. Die Schnittstelle verbindet Bidirektional alle Signale der EMZ mit dem KNX-Bus

I understand from the above text that it uses standard input sensor. I'm looking for a way to build an alarm controller, based on KNX as input.
As the sensors ARE already there, I was hoping for a way to manage them easily.
So far, I've build an alarm controller, based on the HS and GLE, but in the long run, it turns out to be not easyly manageable, even using large worksheet and connectors in the GLE, hence looking for an alternative

[TheMax74]

I use Cytech Comfort (Comfort the Intelligent Home System by Cytech Technology) since 2005 with great success.
This is a stand alone alarm panel, programmable using a sort of "basic" language. It has many interfaces (called UCM), for KNX, Velbus, C-Bus, Z-Wave and many others.
It complies with EN50131 European Intruder Alarm Standards

Feel free to ask me if you have any question.

[Warichet]

I use Cytech Comfort (Comfort the Intelligent Home System by Cytech Technology)

Looks nice, indeed. Might be interesting for someone not already having a HS.
But, by reading the description

Comfort integrates Intruder Alarm, Home Automation, Voicemail and Intercom into an easy-to-use, convenient and affordable system.

I understand much functions already present in the HS are duplicated.

[TheMax74]

I have HS3 and Comfort linked together using an UCM/KNX. They are two different things.
Comfort is a real alarm panel, with battery backup, traditional input/outputs, GSM and landline capability, and is capable to use KNX sensors (like, for example, eibmarkt PIR's) as traditional zones.
Gira HS is not an alarm system.

In my setup, HS is controlling the "home living assistance" (automatic lights and audio diffusion, for example), while the Comfort is controlling the strong security (alarm system, microwave sensors, main door latching, garages door opener).

The two works very well together.

[Michel]

I'm looking for a way to build an alarm controller, based on KNX as input.
As the sensors ARE already there, I was hoping for a way to manage them easily.

For conventional Sensors only, e.g. Reed-contacts, see ABB´s Sicherheitsterminal, 8fach, REG.
Otherwise have a look on JUNG´s TC Plus KNX

[Warichet]

Comfort is a real alarm panel, with battery backup, traditional input/outputs, GSM and landline capability, and is capable to use KNX sensors (like, for example, eibmarkt PIR's) as traditional zones.

Understand !

Gira HS is not an alarm system.

Right (never claimed it was, but I use it as such and it works, but bumping into the limits)

In my setup, HS is controlling the "home living assistance" (automatic lights and audio diffusion, for example), while the Comfort is controlling the strong security (alarm system, microwave sensors, main door latching, garages door opener).

Sorry to be a pain, still not clear for me, so I ask again

I understand the system can use sensors. I don't want it / need it.
Can it use GA defined in ETS ? i.e.
GA 7/2/11 = main door micro-switch. GA will go to "1" if door opened
GA 7/2/33 = garage motion detector
both only to be checked when an alarm button is "On"

[TheMax74]

Yes, you can.
You can map a GA as "virtual zone".
You can send and receive telegrams.
There are several system variables you can use too (system armed, alarm type, alarm keypad simulation, incoming phone messages, etc.) and that you cand send/receive via GA's. You can also use Comfort logic for deep interaction.
I have KNX PIR's and Gira TKS-IP-Gateway linked in that way.

Mine is only a suggestion, i'm not affiliate with Cytech.
Started with Homeseer, i've found my "perfect" and problem-less setup in this way.

[Warichet]

You can map a GA as "virtual zone".

Mmm, sounds good, worth an indepth look at it.
Any known limitations ? i.e. the number of "virtual zone" ?

I have KNX PIR's and Gira TKS-IP-Gateway linked in that way.

it's also on my "to do" list . This dumb list has a strong tendency to grow

i'm not affiliate with Cytech.

That was clear in my mind.
Please don't take offense from dumb questions.
Dummies ask only dumb questions, that's how you recognise them

Any idea about the price, or a pointer to it ?

Thank you for the time & trouble to reply

[Warichet]

For conventional Sensors only, e.g. Reed-contacts, see ABB´s Sicherheitsterminal, 8fach, REG.
Otherwise have a look on JUNG´s TC Plus KNX

Thank you