FUHR multitronic 881 alarm output

[wobbler]

Hello, I plan to buy a lock FUHR multitronic 881 and I am wondering if the control unit can give you feedback when the door was opened or closed. In the documentation I found that the control unit pins 5+6 are for "Alarm output". Is it what I am looking for or does this "alarm output" mean something else? Can someone confirm it? I want to use this information for notifying myself when the door was left open for predefined period of time.

Many thanks.

[TheOlli]

Hi,

the signal between pin 5 + 6 is closed when the door ist locked.
Because the control doesnt have a signal when the door is open, I installed a reed contact in the door leaf.

[wobbler]

It does not? I thought there is supposed to be a magnet contact between the frame and the door leaf. At least that is also what the doc says (attached). I am confused.

[TheOlli]

My controller just tells me if the door is locked or not.
There is a reed in the leaf, but at my Fuhr 881 the signal is not reachable.

[MasterOfPuppets]

Correct, I also have an extra contact that tells me whether the door is closed, the Multitronic 881 only tells you whether it is locked.

[wobbler]

Multitronic 881 is a fully motorised lock which after I think 3s after closing locks itself. Hence there has to be a reed switch so that the motor knows that the door was closed and needs to be locked.

Why did you have to install your own or custom reed switch? Can you check what output you get on pins 5+6 of the control unit before and after opening/closing the door?

[TheOlli]

As I told you before:
5+6 is closed when the door is locked.
And yes, the door has a reed to detect the door is closed. But this signal is not at the terminal block.
This was the reason why we installad our own reed in the frame and a magnet on the leaf.

In my case there are cover strips at the frame and also on the leaf. So the installation is not a big deal and completely invisible.

[MasterOfPuppets]

TheOlli Absolutely correct, the only thing you could do is to pick up the signal at the built-in reed contact directly via a coupling relay and route it to the outside.

The fact that this contact cannot be queried out of the box bothered me at first, but I didn't want to tinker with the lock because of the loss of warranty, hence the external reed. This is also vds compliant for me.

[wobbler]

Olli, can you please elaborate on the sentence "But this signal is not at the terminal block"? What terminal block are you talking about?

Looking at the attached schema, the control unit is simply outside of the door in the main switchboard where I can wire any two cables to read if the 5+6 is open or closed.

I am sorry if my questions are dumb for you, I am not really an electrician, just an IT guy trying to understand something before ordering (because the door manufacturer does not know).

[MasterOfPuppets]

The read contact is only evaluated within the lock (red circle) and is not routed to the outside (green circle) via the data line (from green circle) is only transmitted to the control (blue circle) whether the door is locked or not, this signal on the control you then have 5+6. But you have no signal whether it is open or not, because this raw signal is not transmitted to the control, but is evaluated internally in the lock. now understood?

[TheOlli]

What terminal block are you talking about?

The terminal block are the connectors on which you can connect yout wires.

As MasterOfPuppets has written: The Signal from the reed "leaf cosed" ist not routed to any connectors.

[wobbler]

Thank you, perfectly explained. Now I understood what you meant the whole time that what is received on 5+6 is only an information about locked/unlocked (it doesn't say anything about leaf opened/closed).

However. Why does the documentation state something different and mentions literally "leaf" (see attached)? It doesn't fit in the picture.

Also, today I got a response from official Fuhr support. Here is the important excerpt:

The output 5+6 is a signal for external devices like alarm systems to detect the status of the door leaf. It is a magnetic contact between sash and frame.
This output will not allow to have a locking status of the 881, it is only the position of the door (closed/open).

Is there a chance that there is a newer version of the lock or the control unit where the reed contact is propagated all the way to the control unit's 5+6?

[TheOlli]

I don‘t know of there ist a newer version of the 881. I just can tell you that 5+6 is only the status of the lock at my door.
When I use the unlock function, the leaf is closed
and the signal 5+6 is open.

What Fuhr maybe is talking about: The contact is only closed when the leaf is closed AND the door is locked.

[MasterOfPuppets]

My lock works just like Olli's. So either Fuhr/the employee doesn't know their own locks, or there is a new version that actually only outputs the positions of the door leaf and not the locking status. I would check again in more detail whether he is really sure and refer to our statements.

[wobbler]

Fuhr support replied and said that pins 5+6 work the same since the beginning and that people sometimes misunderstood and believe that the output is related to the locking status. They also attached exactly the same excerpt from the documentation that I posted above.

Still I am wrapping my head around this why it works differently for you.

Anyway, thank you for your comments.