Viessman Vitocom 200 Type EIB - Help

[nigelg]

Dear All,

Sorry, I cant speak German and I would appreciate some help from people who have experience with the Viessman Vitocom 200 Type EIB. Today, with an experienced KNX engineer, have connected a Vitcom 200 Type EIB to a Vitodens 200 WB2. Communication board has been fitted to circuit board on boiler to convert it to 141 Bus. Scan Codes recognises that the EIB gateway has been fitted and the boiler appears to communicate. But when using ETS 3, no information returns from the boiler, anly on BIT 1 errors messages appear on the ETS 3 software. It appears that the 141 Bus and the EIB gateway is not communicating with each other.

Can anyone help, do you think there is fault with Vitocom 200 Type EIB gateway?

[Warichet]

have connected a Vitcom 200 Type EIB to a Vitodens 200 WB2.

I've a Vitocom 200 EIB, connected to a Vitola 200 (never heard about a 141 Bus)
The installation has been very cahotic, due to the fact that the plumber installed the wrong configuration. The build-in regulation Vitotronic 200 had to be replaced with a Vitotronic 300 KW3 in order to accomodate the Vitocom 200 (hence an extra cost of 1.500Eur )

So, before delving too deep in your problem, I'd first check the configuration, preferably by someone at the factory, and make sure you have the necessary pre-requisites on both sides.

But when using ETS 3, no information returns from the boiler, anly on BIT 1 errors messages appear on the ETS 3 software.

If I remember well, among the many data points available from the regulation, you have to select a few which will be available in ETS

do you think there is fault with Vitocom 200 Type EIB gateway?

Most probably no.
Viessmann hardware is quite good.
My experience with support is a pain.

[nigelg]

Hi Warichet

Thanks for the reply

I've a Vitocom 200 EIB, connected to a Vitola 200 (never heard about a 141 Bus)
The installation has been very cahotic, due to the fact that the plumber installed the wrong configuration. The build-in regulation Vitotronic 200 had to be replaced with a Vitotronic 300 KW3 in order to accomodate the Vitocom 200 (hence an extra cost of 1.500Eur )

So, before delving too deep in your problem, I'd first check the configuration, preferably by someone at the factory, and make sure you have the necessary pre-requisites on both sides

We believe that the boiler parts, and communication parts are correct. We spoke to a canadian company called ZWE, who specialise in viessman communication, and they have written papers called 'Vitotalk', as they set up boiler cascades and specialise in BMS. However, they only have experience with the Vitocom 200 Type LON, and therefore have no experience in the EIB side. The bolier is communciating with Viessman 141 2 wire Bus, the Vitocom 200 Type EIB is gateway between the Viessman 141 2 wire bus and Type EIB.

If I remember well, among the many data points available from the regulation, you have to select a few which will be available in ETS

Yes, it appears that there are lots of data points, and they are only in german, and we believe that this is where are problem lies. It is difficult, because its all in German, and very techinical German that does not translate very well.

Did you program the Vitcom 200 Type EIB using ETS, or did you use a specialist EIB/KNX enginner?

Most probably no.
Viessmann hardware is quite good.
My experience with support is a pain

Yes Veissman UK does not support the Vitocom 200 Type EIB, as Viessman germany do not believe that anyone in the UK is using KNX/EIB protocol, so there is no support.

Many thanks for your reply.

[Warichet]

We believe that the boiler parts, and communication parts are correct.
...
The bolier is communciating with Viessman 141 2 wire Bus, the Vitocom 200 Type

If that's true, you are very close to the solution, maybe only a matter of configuration

and we believe that this is where are problem lies.

OK, fine

Did you program the Vitcom 200 Type EIB using ETS, or did you use a specialist EIB/KNX enginner?

I did it myself. I'm able to do mistakes myself, don't need a specialist for that purpose

Veissman UK does not support the Vitocom 200 Type EIB

Same in France They are happy to sell the stuff, but don't support it, GREAT !

I'll come back tonight and dig in the doc about assigning/selecting datapoints
Send me your mail address, I'll send you the doc, if I find it back

[Warichet]

I checked the settings of the Vitocom 200 in ETS.
If I remember well (it was 7 years ago), it's simply a matter of editing the parameters and selecting a datapoint for each of the 16 available fields in the list.

I'll send you the doc I have, (it's probably on the Viessmann site) but I'm not sure it is of any use.
Please bear in mind that the gateway is providing data from the heating system, so the list is dependant of the type of the heating system, it's not a static list, one for all.

[Warichet]

Did you check this for the latest version of the datapoints ?

[nigelg]

Did you check this for the latest version of the datapoints ?

Hi Warichet,

I am still having trouble on the Vitocom 200 EIB. I have done a search on other KNX websites, and these are dated 2006. It looks like you were having the same problems back in 2006. In one of your posts, you refer to EIB - Funktionsbaustein (DIN BCU), 7450 565. Is this a seperate piece of equipment to the Vitocom 200 Type EIB. From the Viessmann EIB web page, there are two .VD1 files one refering to Vitocom and one refering to Funktionsbaustein. I thought that it must be in the same box?

[Warichet]

It looks like you were having the same problems back in 2006.

That's not yesterday, but same cause, same result

In one of your posts, you refer to EIB - Funktionsbaustein (DIN BCU), 7450 565. Is this a seperate piece of equipment to the Vitocom 200 Type EIB.

No, the Funktionsbaustein is not related to the Vitocom 200 Type EIB.
At the time of purchase, I bought every equipment that might be usefull.
Programming the Funktionsbaustein is still on my "to-do" list
In short, it's a kind of calculator, computing heating needs per circuit. Some people here on the forum have done it via the HS

From the Viessmann EIB web page, there are two .VD1 files one refering to Vitocom and one refering to Funktionsbaustein.

Forget about the Funktionsbaustein for the moment, it's not related to your current problem.

Where are you stuck ?
By now, you should have the vdx file and an updated doc listing the parameters for your equipment. If you don't have the updated list, you can't do it. I could send you my file, but I guess it's of no use.
I sugest you get in touch with Viessmann's tech sup.

[nigelg]

That's not yesterday, but same cause, same result


No, the Funktionsbaustein is not related to the Vitocom 200 Type EIB.
At the time of purchase, I bought every equipment that might be usefull.
Programming the Funktionsbaustein is still on my "to-do" list
In short, it's a kind of calculator, computing heating needs per circuit. Some people here on the forum have done it via the HS


Forget about the Funktionsbaustein for the moment, it's not related to your current problem.

Where are you stuck ?
By now, you should have the vdx file and an updated doc listing the parameters for your equipment. If you don't have the updated list, you can't do it. I could send you my file, but I guess it's of no use.
I sugest you get in touch with Viessmann's tech sup.

Hi Warichet

I've managed to get the Vitocom to work. It appears for each parameter you have to set different addresses on the 141 Viessmann bus in the boiler. It ranges from 1-11 and 1-8 on the drop down lists when editing parameters. I have it displaying the external temp. on a web interface and touch panel.

How have you set up your heating? I have 6 heating zones all controlled by Merten Room Thermostats, and telegrams are sent to an actuator, controlling 6 zones. Previously there was a output switch on the actuator, which sent a remote call to turn on the boiler.

There is only HK A: Betriebsart, (W) which has 5 settings controlled by byte 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

Do you leave your bolier on Normalbetrieb (Tag) / reduzierter Bertrieb (nacht)? What do your Room Thermostats control and they set up for PI controller?

Many thanks for kind help in this situation.

Nigel

[Warichet]

I have it displaying the external temp. on a web interface and touch panel.

I'm doing the same. On the top menu bar of each Visu page, I display the internal and external temp.
The fact is that the sensor is installed according meto practises, hence almost the same values as those given from the weather forecast.

I have 6 heating zones all controlled by Merten Room Thermostats, and telegrams are sent to an actuator, controlling 6 zones.

Sounds good. In my case, the setup of the thermostat is different between a warm water radiator zone and a warm water floor heating.

There is only HK A: Betriebsart, (W) which has 5 settings controlled by byte 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

Sorry, don't understand

Do you leave your bolier on Normalbetrieb (Tag) / reduzierter Bertrieb (nacht)?

By boiler, you mean the device heating water for the heating system ? (in my language, a boiler is the device heating sanitary water (shower))
I don't touch the central heating system, except manually switching it off in the summer, just leaving the sanitary circuit on.

What do your Room Thermostats control and they set up for PI controller?

Yes, PI algorythme, although for under-floor heating, there is a device in between doing PWM.

[nigelg]

I'm doing the same. On the top menu bar of each Visu page, I display the internal and external temp.
The fact is that the sensor is installed according meto practises, hence almost the same values as those given from the weather forecast

.

Ok Noted

Sounds good. In my case, the setup of the thermostat is different between a warm water radiator zone and a warm water floor heating.

Is your thermostat a viessmann type connected to the heat source (Boiler in English, Kessel in german, French?), or EIB type?

Sorry, don't understand

On the Vitocom Parameters connected to a Vitodens 200, there is write function, which allows EIB telegrams to put this in stand by, stand by with DHW heating (hot water for showers and bath), Normal operation continous, Normal Day and reduced temp at Night, Normal day, frost at Night, or Frost protection.

Do your thermostats telegram your heat device to turn on? If not, how does your heat device know when set point temp has been reached?

By boiler, you mean the device heating water for the heating system ? (in my language, a boiler is the device heating sanitary water (shower))
I don't touch the central heating system, except manually switching it off in the summer, just leaving the sanitary circuit on.

Yes boiler is the heat device, kessel in german I think. It heats the hot water for showers by storing in cyclinder and central heating for radiators.

Yes, PI algorythme, although for under-floor heating, there is a device in between doing PWM

Surely a weather compensation controller on the heat device, is doing this already. Does this not confuse central heating system, and close valves when not to.

Nigel

[Warichet]

Is your thermostat a viessmann type connected to the heat source (Boiler in English, Kessel in german, French?), or EIB type?

Yes, it is a Viessmann type, it is part of the initial installation. It is connected directly to the regulation (Vitotronic 300 KW3). Using EIB here makes no sense. A skilled EIB specialist cannot do better than a pool of full-time Viessmann engineers, experienced in heating since years.

Do your thermostats telegram your heat device to turn on? If not, how does your heat device know when set point temp has been reached?

I'm not a specialist, rather the average user, but ...
The problem is split into 2 parts.
Part 1. The central heating system is producing hot water, based on external temp and return temp. That's it. It's not concerned by the room temp. It's duty is to produce ad-hoc hot water for the consumers.
Part 2. The room thermostat is supposed to control a valve mechanism (EMO or thermic valve) and make sure the desired temp is reached and maintained. This implies having at disposal hot water at sufficient temperature. In my case, there are sensors on the departure and return circuit. There is also a 3 way valve mixing a certain % of return water.

Surely a weather compensation controller on the heat device, is doing this already. Does this not confuse central heating system, and close valves when not to.

No. Given the above theory (if correct), the regulation takes care of the production of hot water. It doesn't close/open any room valve(s), that's the job of the room thermostat. Suppose that a certain moment, i.e. 07H30, all thermostat command the opening of the room valves at 80%, there will be a huge flow of cold water back to the central heating. This will trigger the start of the heating system.
On the opposite, the temp of water flowing back to the central is almost equal to the departure temp, the system switches the burner Off.