HS/FS Uhrzeit vergleichen

[ChrisChros]

Hallo zusammen,

ich bin momentan damit beschäftigt mir eine Logik zu überlegen für meine Rollladensteuerung damit die Rollos morgens automatisch auffahren.
Das Konzept sieht bisher wie folgt aus:
Die Logik soll nur unter der Woche (Montag-Freitag) aktiv sein.
Des Weiteren nutze ich den Baustein Sonnenaufgang mit einem Versatz von 60min. Dieser ist mit einem UND mit der Zeitschaltuhr verbunden. Damit die Rollos nicht aufgehen wenn es draußen noch dunkel ist (z.B. bewölkt) nutze ich den Dämmerungswert meiner Wetterstation mit der Schwellwert Hysterese.

Jetzt würde ich gerne noch eine weitere Option in die Logik einfügen die mir ein AUF Signal sendet wenn die Uhrzeit größer der Zeit "X" ist. Wie kann ich diesen Vergleich in der Logik implementieren?

Logik Rollladensteuerung.PNG

Gruß Chris


Nachtrag:
Ich habe jetzt noch den besagten Uhrzeitvergleich eingefügt bin mir aber nicht sicher ob das so funktioniert da mit die Zeit von der Wetterstation als Objekt 3 Byte (EIS3) ausgegeben wird und meine definierte Zeit ein Dezimalwert ist.
Zumindest meckert der Experte nicht wenn ich die Prüfung durchlaufen lasse.

Logik Rollladensteuerung rev2.PNG

[bramlangen]

Christian,

I doubt it will work.

• It looks like the output directly controls the Rolläden - that would mean that when the logic results in a '0' they all would go down. I assume you want to prevent that, which you can do by making that output a command (Befehl). A command only executes when the input is not equal to zero.
• I think what you are trying to achieve is that the Rolläden will get the 'Up' command when all conditions are true, so:
  • It must be a weekday, AND
  • it must be 1 hour after sunrise, AND
  • it must not be dark, AND
  • it must not be before a certain time of day.

The way you have the logic now is that the 'OR' will trigger the Rolläden to go up when any one of those conditions is true.
I would change the logic to have a 4-fold 'AND' module, and tie all the inputs into that one. Tie the command output to the 'sbc' output of the module.

• Regarding the time comparison, I personally would achieve that through a universal timeclock. Let the clock send a '1' at a certain time, and let it reset to '0' at for instance midnight. Alternatively you can forget about that, and add the time to your existing timeclock - set the start and end times in addition to what you have today. (The reason I prefer a universal timeclock is because you can easily change the time without a reboot. I would do totally away with your existing timeclock module, replace it with a single input triggered by the universal timeclock.)

Bram

[ChrisChros]

Thanks a lot Bram for you answer.
I also had some doupts about the output of Rollläden that I will have an influence into my shaddowing logic during the summer times.

But let me explain the target of the logic:

• It must be a weekday, AND
• it must be 1 hour after sunrise
• OR it must not be dark,
• OR they have tobe open at a certain time of day by latest.

[ChrisChros]

regarding your suggestion to use a universal timeklock I have a question.
I understood that I can use this feature only with te HS Visu and not with the QC-Visu, I am right?

[bramlangen]

Christian, I don't use the QC, so I don't know about how to access the universal timeclock through that visu. Assuming you therefore cannot use the universal timeclock, I suggest the following:

• Keep your existing timeclock - but the way you have it now it will send a '1' at the start of Monday, and a '0' at the end of Friday (if I understand that module correctly). So, to let the input of the 'UND' cycle back to zero you will need to include a timeperiod, for instance from 04:00 through 09:00.
  As you are only interested in hours or days, I suggest you set the 'Ganggenauigkeit' to 60 or 300 (it is only an internal calculation, but why do it every second if you only need it a few times per week).
  Also keep in mind that this timeclock uses the HS-time, I would stick with that for the rest of your logic too.
• Your 'Sonnenaufgang' - keep as is. It will only send a '1' (never a zero), so include a module like 15016 to send a '0' after for instance 1 second.
• After reboot, 'UND' does not recalculate. Keep in mind that the other inputs of the 'ODER' will have to make sure the result of your logic is the way you want it to be after a reboot. Specifically, your 'Dämmerung' will have to do that for you. Alternatively you can use an iKO and tie that to the fourth input of the 'ODER'. You can then send a '1' (followed by a '0'!) from the QC interface.
• I would do away with the last two 'Uhrzeit' modules at the left. Replace those two with module 9039. That module uses the HS time. Output A4 of that module will give you an '8' at eight in the morning. Tie output A4 to input E1 of the comparator, and set E2 to the fixed value of '8'. The output will be '1' from 8 o'clock until midnight. If you use output A1 then it will send that signal every hour - so use output A3. That way, you will not get the '1' every hour on the hour (which would get your rollos up every time). At midnight that output will send a '0'.
• Remove the GA from the output box, and replace it with a 'Befehl' to set that GA to '1'.
• For the rollos to go down you will need to use a separate logic.

Bram

[ChrisChros]

Dear Bram,

thanks for your really good explanation. I have now implemented your suggestions into my logik. I will see tomorrow morning if every thing works as expected.

Logik Rollladensteuerung rev3.PNG

Chris

[bramlangen]

Good :-) I forgot to mention that the Zeitschaltuhr you already use also sends the hour (the 'Stunde' Ausgang). You could do away with the other time module (so: simpler) but it will result in a crossing line in your logic - some folks don't like that. But if you rearrange the modules a bit it still would look logical, I would think.
Now that the sunrise module sends an on/off (due to the generator module behind it), you can also consider changing the 'UND' module to a Sperre. The clock opens and closes the gate. That way, you can easily see in the logic that the trigger has to come from the sunrise module. Just hair-splitting.
For now, leave it as is and see if the logic does what you expect it to do.
Bram

[ChrisChros]

But I think I figured out a problem. during summer the earliest sunrise will be at 5:18, so the logic will open at 6:18 in the morning. maybe i should includ a gate and combine it with a definition of the earliest time I would like to open the windows.

Update:
Now I implemented your suggestion with the gate but in a little bit different way. I use the gate to be open at earliest 7 in the morning. I also deleted the seperat time module and combined it within the Zeitschaltuhr.

Logik Rollladensteuerung rev4.PNG

[bramlangen]

From your earlier post (#3) that is how I understood you wanted it :-)...
Post #25 in this thread has a simple condition for up/down:
https://knx-user-forum.de/forum/%C3%...h-runter/page2

With your existing logic you can already achieve the 'earliest time' condition that you want: Set the generator after the sunrise module to a few hours (say, 3 or 4), and set the start time of your Zeitschaltuhr to the earliest time you want (hours and minutes). In that case it must be after for instance 7:30 AND it must be light. Done.

[NilsS]

Nachtrag:
Ich habe jetzt noch den besagten Uhrzeitvergleich eingefügt bin mir aber nicht sicher ob das so funktioniert da mit die Zeit von der Wetterstation als Objekt 3 Byte (EIS3) ausgegeben wird und meine definierte Zeit ein Dezimalwert ist.
Zumindest meckert der Experte nicht wenn ich die Prüfung durchlaufen lasse.

Mit dem Baustein http://service.knx-user-forum.de/?co...nload&id=12729 sollte das Vergleichen möglich sein. Da intern ein 14Byte Objekt verwendet wird, das die Zeit im Format 07:30 ... ausgibt. Aber Achtung Baustein ist Beta und greift tief in die HS Eingeweide ein, läuft aber auf meinem HS ordentlich.

[bramlangen]

Chris, your last logic arrangement may not do exactly what you want. If I understand your requirements correctly then logic as per the attached should work. The Zeitschaltuhr should be able to meet your 'do not act before xx:xx'. The 'open no later than' can be easily accomplished with module 13401. I tried to keep the logic as straight-forward as possible, so that troubleshooting should be easy.
Bram
temp.jpg

[ChrisChros]

Hello Bram thanks a lot again, the logic works as expected.